Q&A – What does a willing heart in recovery look like for a betrayed spouse?

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.

Tara McCausland: Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery Podcast. I'm Tara McCausland and happy to have here with me my co-host Justin B. Welcome, Justin.

Justin B: Thank you, Tara.

Tara McCausland: And Heather B, who is Justin's wife. Thanks for being here again, Heather.

Heather B: Thanks for having me.

Tara McCausland: We talk in SA Lifeline about a willing heart, and we talk about it for not just the person who's dealing with the behavior, but we also talk about it in regards to the affected spouse. And so I'm curious, Heather, from your perspective, what does a willing heart really look like for a spouse to be willing to take the steps to heal yourself rather than focusing so much on the addict?

Heather B: Yeah, I had to be willing to just go to— first, I had to be willing to go to God and ask God, I don't know what to do about this. I can't believe my marriage is falling apart. You know, like, I had no idea and all these things. And then I just had to be willing to just pray and ask God, what do I do now? Like, what am I supposed to do with this? And then I finally was crazy enough to go to my ecclesiastical leader.

Yeah. And told him, I have the mouse and the computer keyboard in my trunk right now. Like every time I leave, I'm driving with parts of my computer. I'm going insane. He would leave for work and all day long, that's all I could think about. And, and so my ecclesiastical leader, he was the one that actually sent me to a recovery group. Hmm. He was the one that said, Because I kept showing up like, I need help.

I don't know what to do. And he, you know, he would give me scriptures. He was great. I am so grateful. Like, again, feel like God just put people in my path that I needed. And he was someone I needed at the time. And he really was so good at just talking to me about how I can forgive, but I don't have to trust. And that was huge. That was like, oh my gosh, what? You know, I could do that.

He just kept talking me through these different things that then finally, I just remember this one day going, Here, go to this meeting. We've reached the end of my abilities of being able to help you, which was great. I love that he was open to that and totally was just like, here, please go to this. And, and that, that was the day that my life changed, was walking into that room. Hmm. That is when my journey really began.

I'm so grateful for those women who were there, who were willing to be there. They had started a meeting and no one had come for 2 weeks and it was brand new. And that was another reason my, my ecclesiastical leader just found out about it. He was like, here, go to this. And I came and they were so excited cuz me and one other woman showed up and they were so excited. But I just remember going in and going, okay, they're gonna tell me how to fix my husband, how to get him to change and how to get him out not to be an addict and how to, you know, do all these things.

And I just remember being so shocked by the end of the meeting that all they talked about was themselves and how it had affected them and how their higher power was helping them. And I was like, what? This is not what I wanted. It's not what I wanted to hear. But, but I, I kept going back and I just kept going. And the more I kept going, the more I realized this is where I need to be and this is what's gonna help me.

Because I felt, I felt like I wasn't alone. I felt like I had a tribe now of people that at least understood. And they were happy. They were laughing. I can remember them laughing. And I remember thinking, how can you be laughing? You live with addicted men. It just didn't connect. And, but it was just such a blessing. I just, I'm so grateful. So grateful. Mm-hmm. That he sent me there and that he was willing to say, I can't help you, maybe this can.

Yeah. And he was so right. That's really all I started doing was once-a-week meetings. I just went every week. Every Saturday morning was when my group met, and that's where I went, and it was great. And then eventually I got willing to have a sponsor. I opened my heart to that, and I saw how sponsorship was helping people and it was changing them, and I realized And God started kind of directing me towards that, like, you kind of need a sponsor.

I thought I didn't. I was trying to work the steps on my own because I was like, I'm different, I'm special, because that's how human beings work. And so I eventually realized, no, I'm not. I'm not any different. I'm not special. And, and I eventually found a sponsor— my therapist. You know, it's, it's great to go into a therapist and talk and tell him all these things, but then he gave me things to do or tools to try, and I had to be willing and open to trying them and seeing if any of those things would work for me.

Now, some of the stuff he said did not help me, and, and I could come back to him and say, tried that, that didn't really work for me. He was okay with that, you know, but I was willing to try it and be open to that. I had moments where I didn't want to be willing. moments when I'm like, I don't love my husband. I just really don't wanna be here. And, but then I would pray for a willingness to be willing to love him, willingness to be willing to do this next thing that I need to do.

And, and those prayers were answered. I'm not, I was not perfect. Still not. Uh, there's times when I struggle with the willing heart, but I know as I surrender, And I recognize my willingness that God works with that even just a little tiny bit and has healed me because of it. And I guess that's where I'm able more now to be willing is because I've seen how that's changed me.

Tara McCausland: Well, I love that you, as you explained so well, it was just baby steps, that it wasn't everything all at once, but that you were willing to pray and willing to listen to that answer and then willing to go to a meeting. And so I think that as you described that sliver of willingness and recognizing that might ebb and flow sometimes, but continually being willing to just get back on the path if you feel like stepping off or if you step off for a little while.

Because it's really easy as someone who has been victimized to stay in that victim mindset and say, this is not my problem, this is not my fault. Why should I have to XYZ, go to a meeting, go and, and buy these books and read them. That is, this my life now?

Heather B: And I've heard that. I've heard that from women. I, I've had people come to a group and I'm talking to them afterwards or whatever in the parking lot and they're like, why should I have to do this? That victimhood is so easy. It is easy to stay there. But I, what I found it for me is when I stay there, I'm miserable and I'm stuck and I don't go anywhere. And I, I'm surrendering my power. I'm giving up my power to somebody else.

And the minute I turn that around and I'm willing, like, I, I'm like, okay, you know what? I need to be willing to do XYZ or be humble or take this to God and open this up. Then that's when the power comes back. Yeah. I'm miserable. I, if I'm honest with myself, I'm miserable when I'm a victim and I stay there. Those emotions, those negative emotions are real and they're there and they hurt, but not working through them and just staying in that has never brought me peace or serenity.

It's just brought me misery.

Tara McCausland: So, and just to clarify for our listeners, how many years was it, Justin, before you Started going to 12-step after Heather started going?

Justin B: So it will be 10 years that I'm in the rooms in September of this year. So in a couple of months. So it was nearly, it was over 7 years. It was over 7 years from the time she started her recovery journey before I actually started taking real steps. You know, I sure tried a whole lot of things that I was willing to do, but they were all easier, half-measure type things. But Until I stepped into the rooms, it was 7+ years.

Tara McCausland: And that's remarkable. So you, you were really there for yourself, Heather, clearly, because you— Oh yeah. See, he would come along if he wanted to, but you found strength and peace and power in doing those things for yourself. I find that remarkable and so commendable. And looking—

Heather B: Well, and I'm grateful for that. Yeah. Because to me, it taught me, as hard as it was to live with an addict, I mean, like, I was living with an addict. He, he was in complete and total denial, did not believe he was an addict. I got control of this, honey. Don't worry, I got it. I love you, dear. But that was— remember what you said to me once? Don't worry, I got this. It's like, okay.

And there were, you know, there was rocks along the way, but I can honestly say, looking back, there were moments of joy. I mean, I think those 8 years of our marriage were so much better than the 10 years that, that I had to, the recovery in my life, that I had tools, that I had God. I was putting God at my center, no longer him. You know, it was me and God. It was me and God a lot.

In fact, I was, I was probably better at relying on him then than I am now that he's in recovery. Sometimes I feel like I, I get probably a little more lax on my surrender, things like that. But I am so grateful because I did learn really quickly that recovery was possible and I could still be happy even if he chose not to be in recovery. And, and that has been a great gift to me. As, as hard as it was, anytime I talk to a woman who's like, well, my husband doesn't wanna go, and I'm like, honey, girl, it's okay.

I've been there. I know that. And that is a hard path and it's a yucky path too, but it— You can be happy. I promise. Like, There will be peace. There will be serenity, and who knows what will happen? I'm not again. I don't judge anyone's path. If if someone's marriage has to end, that's okay. Like it's their path. Their path is different than my path. Their God is going to lead them to do something different than what my my higher power led me to because I I did pray and I asked.

There were times when I asked, should I leave? You know, and it was always no. Stay, stay, stay. And I was like, okay, I'm staying. And I'd rather. I mean, personally, I would rather have stayed. I knew what I already was married to and everything, and. We had kids and I didn't wanna break that family that, that I had created, worked so hard to have that was different than my family. And so it just gave me more tools to do that, to make an even stronger family and a better family.

But I had to trust in God and that was hard. Yeah.

Tara McCausland: Well, I feel like you're a, a poster child, Heather, of this is what recovery looks like when your husband is not coming along with you. And as we like to say, it works when I work it. So regardless of whether or not my husband chooses to work it or my partner, I can still enjoy the gifts of the program. And that's powerful. Any closing thoughts, Justin, before we close out this particular Q&A?

Justin B: Just a bit of gratitude, I guess, is what my closing thought is on this one. That Heather, while it was hard on me looking at it as a selfish person, I thought, hey, I'll share this and she'll say, You know, thanks for being honest. This hurts my feelings, but let's, let's work on this. And then seeing how much it honestly hurt her was shocking, as she mentioned. But the example she set of going and getting help, going and connecting, although like I said, I did not follow that example for a long time, the light that came to her, the light in her eyes eventually drew me to what became recovery and what is— You know, generally me living in, in a really generally good place, and I'm grateful for that.

And that example that Heather set to drag me along, even though she didn't do it forcefully. I mean, she after a while was like, you do what you do, I'm, I'm working myself. It sure attracted me to come along with her. So that's, that's what I have as a final thought.

Heather B: When he would say to me, I remember if I hadn't been to a meeting for a little while, like if I— there was stuff had come up or whatever that week and I didn't get to go to a meeting. So then it would be the next week, he'd be like, you know that meeting? I think you really need to go. And I was like, I remember thinking, you don't even know what that's like. But I would be like, oh, you're right.

Like, uh, brutal. Oh, it's fine. But it was true. Like, I love that That someone noticed a difference. There was a difference being had. Like, the fact that he even would be like, hey. I mean, I shared stuff with him that I was learning about myself, about the steps. And, and so sometimes he'd bring up the steps and I'd be like, why are you doing this to me? But then, you know, I would bring it back to myself and I'd be like, nope, this is about my journey.

It's, you know, he's got his and I got mine right now. It was good to know that it was changing me. to have someone saying, you need to go back to those meetings, even though he didn't want to go, told me these meetings are good for me. So I, I'm so grateful.

Tara McCausland: Well, it's so fun to listen. I mean, fun to listen to you talk and reminisce about these experiences that were, I'm sure in the middle of them, so painful. But I think you're witnessing to the fact that we can we can rise above this level of trauma and pain that in the moment can feel earth-shattering. Well, this has been so fun again to speak with the two of you together. Grateful for how you're both doing individually and in your marriage.

Recovery works. Yeah. Tools work. And I love to have evidence sitting before me that it does indeed work. Thank you so much to our listeners for being here. We're going to wrap up this Q&A. We'll see you next time.

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