Attachment Theory and Healing from Addiction and Trauma w/ Jed Anderson

Jed Anderson: One thing I try to help husbands understand is how patient they've got to be as their wife goes through the pain of that period of time that's either disorganized or anxious attachment. Because if you get exasperated with her and you think she should be moving through that faster than she can, you're just going to create more insecure attachment.

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.

Tara McCausland: Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery podcast. I am your host, Tara McCausland, and I'm so pleased to have here with me Jed Anderson. Welcome, Jed.

Jed Anderson: Hi, thanks, Tara. pleasure. I'm glad to be here.

Tara McCausland: Yeah. We're gonna be talking about something that might sound really clinical to our listeners, but I think that it will be very helpful. It is this attachment theory and how attachment impacts both addiction and betrayal trauma. But what other snippet or a glimpse could you give to our listeners to just kind of prepare them for what we'll be discussing? Yeah.

Jed Anderson: So as I went through my master's degree, I was introduced briefly to attachment theory, but then when I got into my internship, I was really immersed into it. And it really opened my eyes to how powerful of a model it is for understanding human relationships. But then as I looked at it through the lens of recovery, I was like, man, this could be one of the most important models of understanding and insight. And so I just tried to work on expounding And expanding that understanding over the 15, 16 years I've been a therapist, and I'm still convicted and converted.

It's awesome. I hope people will find a lot of insight from hearing about it. 'Cause sometimes we have really strong feelings in addiction, betrayal trauma, and recovery, but we lack the vocabulary to like describe what we're experiencing. I think attachment theory gives a lot of good vocabulary and framework words to be able to communicate with more clarity and understanding. So I hope we'll, I'll be able to provide some of that today.

Tara McCausland: Before we get into the bulk of our conversation, I wanted to officially introduce you. So Jed Anderson is the clinical director of LDS Hope and Recovery. He's been a licensed therapist specializing in recovery from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma for 15 years. Jed's own journey of recovery started 18 years ago after years of trying to overcome his struggles by using willpower and self-discipline. He had such a life-changing experience that he decided to become a therapist and pay it forward and help others.

Jed is trained in multiple therapy models, but he loves using attachment theory and internal family systems as his primary models in his practice. So I'm excited to get into this. So let's, let's just give people a framework here. What is attachment theory? And what is secure attachment?

Jed Anderson: So attachment theory, we kind of attribute a lot of the development of the theory to a guy named John Bowlby. He lived in England, he was working on understanding parent-child relationships better. An interesting thing timing-wise, England was being bombed by Germany at the time he was working on some of his hypotheses and models and stuff. And so at the end of the war, a lot of kids, there are more kids in orphanages than average. And it was kind of a perfect place to test some of his ideas and hypotheses about what kids need in order to grow up and become pretty successful in what we now call securely attached adults.

And so that's kind of where it got some of its beginnings was looking at how does it affect a kid to not have a lot of one-on-one connection with an adult, what we now call a primary attachment figure. And it just turned out to be really, really powerful and kind of a whole new way of looking at needs and connection. And it's grown a lot since then. I would say in the last 25 years. It's grown from just being something where we look at child development, and now we look a lot into how couples relate to each other and work through their connections and insecurities and all that.

So yeah, so that's a little bit of the history of it. Let me show you, I'll share my screen and we'll look at what the attachment theory model looks like and The Dance of Attachment. And that'll kind of answer the second question.

Tara McCausland: Yeah. And for those who are listening on audio, um, you can head over to YouTube to see the visuals if you're interested, but go ahead. Thank you. Okay.

Jed Anderson: So this is going to be kind of a boiled down, more basic explanation. There's a lot of complexity, but to keep it simple, what Bowlby found is that we all have 3 really vital needs in order to feel what we call secure attachment. Those are safety, belonging, and esteem, as you can see. So safety, there's kind of 2 pieces there. There's physical safety, which is I don't feel like I have to worry about my basic needs, for example, food, clothing, shelter.

But I also don't have to worry about someone who's bigger than me hurting me. You know, I'm not like— You know, anxious or worried that they might do something that could hurt me. There's also emotional safety, which is kind of tied to trust. It's the ability to feel like I can relax knowing that if you tell me something, it's pretty much the truth. I'm not going to get blindsided with something else. Belonging is that feeling that I have a really special spot in this relationship.

I'm needed. I'm wanted. And I couldn't be easily replaced. And finally, esteem is that feeling that I'm worthy of love and connection. Even though I'm imperfect, I'm still worthy of love and connection. So because we don't live in a perfect world, we're going to encounter a lot of situations where we feel stress tied to any one of those 3. And what happens is when we feel that stress, We need to be able to turn to someone that we would call a primary attachment figure.

And their job is to meet us in that need and, and help us to fulfill what that need is. And as a result, we both move on to relaxation. And every time that this dance of attachment happens, a little bit more attachment and trust grows in that relationship. So a quick example. When Bowlby was looking at these kids in orphanages, one example would be a baby who's given a bottle because it needs the nutrition, but there's not enough adults to just pick that baby up and hold it and feed the bottle.

They've gotta prop the bottle up in the baby's mouth versus a mom who's holding her baby. They've got some skin-to-skin contact going on. She's looking down at the baby, talking to them. Her voice is familiar, her smell is familiar, having nonverbal communication happening. And that, that dance of attachment's a lot different. Even though they're getting the same nutrition, there's a lot of things going on with belonging and esteem and, and all that. And the mom also benefits from that interaction, actually.

As a mom, her needs around belonging and esteem go into a state of stress when her baby cries, for example. So having the baby relax and feel good because she took care of him, that's actually meeting her need as well. So the dance isn't just for the person who has the initial stress, it's also for the person who connects with them and helps them meet their need. So that's the basics of— of secure attachment.

Tara McCausland: Excellent. Well, and again, if you couldn't visualize that and you want to see the visual, head over to YouTube, listeners. So again, just to reiterate, so the secure attachment is having that safety, that belonging, that esteem. Those are the key factors, right? And having those needs met. Um, yeah. So what then if we were to contrast that What are the 3 types of insecure attachment and why do people develop those, those types of attachment?

Jed Anderson: Yeah, good questions. I'll bring up a visual that has some description and I'm happy to email these out to someone if they would like a PDF copy, but let me go back to the cycle here and explain a little bit. Okay. So the first type of insecure attachment In other words, when this doesn't go right, when things, something goes haywire or is missing, first type we'll go through is called avoidant attachment. And avoidant attachment is kind of when we get stuck between our need and the stress.

And for whatever reason, we don't really move into the connecting with an attachment figure. And there's lots of reasons why that could happen. One might be The attachment figure just isn't, literally isn't available in the case of a death or in case of a very busy parent. They might be a really caring and good person, but if they're so busy, they got a full-time job and then they've got a calling in their church and then they coach my brother's Little League team.

It's like, when am I supposed to connect with them? So that might be a factor. It could be that maybe they reacted poorly when I asked for help at one point. Maybe I felt shame, rejection, but for whatever reason, I feel inside of my body and mind that it's better if I just shove this knee over into the corner because it hasn't gone well for me in the past if I've tried. The statistics show that about, that men are a little bit more likely to pick up avoidant detachment.

about 75-25. And it kind of makes sense if you think about culturally some of the messages boys and men receive of like, you know, toughen up, quit crying, quit whining. It can kind of foster, unfortunately, some of that avoidant attachment style. The next type of insecure attachment is anxious attachment. Anxious attachment is when I actually get stuck between stress and having my need met, which on the surface sounds a little odd. You would think, well, if you're having your need met, why wouldn't you just move on to relaxation?

So the problem is the way that the need is getting met, something feels off or insincere or inconsistent, or my gut tells me something's not— something's fishy about this, or— Maybe in the past when the need's been met by this person, it ended up being fake or counterfeit, or, you know, something's, something's going on. So because of that gut feeling, I actually cycle back to stress. I can't quite put my finger on it maybe, but something doesn't feel right.

And so again, instead of moving on to relaxation, I cycle back and kind of get stuck there. And the last type of insecure attachment is thankfully the least common because it's the most devastating. It's called disorganized attachment. And that happens when not only am I not able to move on to relaxation, but I actually feel some, something akin to terror. So A quick example might be a kid who's been waiting for his dad to get home from work because he wants to go play catch with the baseball in the backyard.

And he was expecting him home at 5:30. Dad doesn't come home. 7:30, dad finally comes home. But what happened is after work, he went out to have some drinks with his friends and he's been drinking alcohol and he comes home and the kid, because he's excited to see him and kind of runs into his leg and the dad caught him off guard and in his mindset, the way it is, he gets angry and backhands the kid across the face.

You can imagine in that kid's body and mind, it's super confusing because there's a sincere part of him that wants to connect, but there's also this pain, you know, this burning pain across his face. Mm-hmm. The shock of like, what the heck? Like, I just wanted to give you a hug. And so the conflicted feeling of, I deeply want and crave connection, and yet I'm terrified that if I try, it might blow up in my face kind of thing.

And you can see how there might be, there's kind of a scale, a spectrum of that. You can see how sometimes betrayal trauma might feel like that, where This person that I want to be the one who feels the safest, most secure, most reliable to me just dropped a disclosure, or I just discovered their addiction. And now I can feel the sting of that and it feels like I can't relax and I can't trust. And so, yeah, kind of mixed up feelings.

So a quick summary. we look at those, um, secure attachment is basically I can relax and trust and I feel safety, belonging, esteem. Avoidant is I can't relax and trust because I feel too much shame or fear, or maybe, uh, it's missing, uh, when I try. And so I'm going to cope by using disconnection, distraction, defensiveness, or withdrawing. Anxious attachment is I can't relax and trust because my gut tells me something's off. I can cope by being reactive, cleaning, criticizing, or controlling.

And again, disorganized, like I just can't relax because I'm deeply traumatized. I swing between seeking closeness and disengaging, and my feelings might alternate between hostility and helplessness. That's a summary.

Tara McCausland: Yeah, very good. Well, not, not so good, but I, I appreciate that explanation. And I suspect as our listeners were hearing those 4 different types of attachment, they may have already been putting themselves in a box of where they stand, and that we might be getting ahead of ourselves, but As you're working with people dealing with addiction, where do you find that many of them are in one particular camp? You said disorganized is the least common. What's— and maybe you already said this, but what is the most common?

Jed Anderson: No, good question. It's a combination. A lot of times the addict is struggling with avoidant attachment and the spouse is feeling anxious attachment. And they can end up in kind of a pursue-withdraw pattern. Yeah. 18 years ago when I started recovery, we used to use the term codependent a lot more than we do nowadays, but that dance could be part of what we used to call codependence, where the anxious attached partner, because of the triggers they're having, they might pursue the avoidant partner.

And the avoidant person feels more pressure, kind of some more shame. They, they want to comply, but they don't really ever feel like they can do enough. And so it can end up being one of those, we call it an anxious avoidant dance of attachment. So that's what we most commonly see. Sometimes that actually switches over time. If a wife gets burned out from her betrayal trauma, Sometimes she can start feeling numb and start disengaging because since the controlling, the criticizing, the policing didn't work and she feels so burned out from it, she can actually start moving towards avoidant attachment with her spouse and, you know, kind of shutting down, feeling numb.

And interestingly, sometimes— Yeah. It can then become anxious. And his attachment and, um, they kind of swap roles a little bit. It's kind of interesting. That's where it's so important to do recovery with the right tools and resources because it can help us get out of that old dance, anxious avoidant dance of attachment. Yeah. Let me show you another visual. If you haven't figured out, you're not a visual learner, so I've got a handout for almost everything.

But I want to show you this one. This can kind of help us understand what's going on with what I just described. You can see that the needs don't change. They never will change. We're always going to need safety, belonging, and esteem. And the stress isn't going to change. That's always going to be there. But what happens is, as an avoidant attachment person shoves all those needs into the corner, They're not just going to vanish or go away.

They're going to build up pressure. And the more pressure that builds, the more likely my nervous system is going to say, I need something to get rid of this pressure or to manage this pressure. And that's where an addictive substance or activity comes in and says, I got a shortcut. All you got to do is do this. Take this, act in this way, and I'll take you to relaxation really quick. And so the likelihood of someone picking up an addiction shortcut is a lot higher if they're feeling avoidant attachment, or if they're experiencing avoidant attachment in their life, because we're not hardwired to just take endless amounts of stress and pressure without some release and relief.

And so we end up taking that shortcut. It kind of works is the tricky part, especially in the honeymoon phase of addiction. It feels like we found the secret key to finding relief for what we've been craving. And on the surface, it looks like nothing bad has happened. It doesn't look like our relationship's been affected. It doesn't feel like There's going to be big fallout. And so that actually fosters us returning to that shortcut more. And there's the illusion of control, right?

Like, I'm going to pick when I take this shortcut. I'm in control of it. I'm only going to do it when I want to. But slowly and surely, we're learning to depend more upon the shortcut than on our primary attachment figures. And the more we replace primary attachment figures with the shortcut, the more effect it's going to have on our relationships. Because essentially, it's a counterfeit attachment. You know, in Christianity, you know, the first commandment is, thou shalt have no other gods before me.

God's right there, he's talking about attachment theory. You know what he's saying? Like, I want to be in this dance of attachment with you. Don't replace me with some shortcut or something else that makes you feel good. And so the result of that shortcut being taken is, since it's hijacking or replacing the dance of secure attachment, detachment and mistrust grows out of that. And you can see how if this is happening, even if the spouse of an addict didn't have anxious attachment before, they're probably gonna start picking it up because they can sense that something's off.

Even if it's being covered up successfully, there's still a gut sense for a lot of them that, why does this feel like something's missing? Or how come it feels like something's off? Or his behaviors, he seems more, more likely to be angry. than average, or he's more on edge, or, or yeah, what these are, these red flags that he has, maybe he has some explanation for, but explanation doesn't quite fit. She can start feeling like, I'm gonna cycle back here to the stress because the answer I'm getting doesn't quite add up.

So she starts feeling the effect on safety, belonging, and esteem. And then when The discovery happens, disclosure or discovery happens. You can see how that could blow big holes in her sense of especially safety, but also that belonging. Like she feels replaced and esteem is like, well, what the heck is wrong with me? How come, how come I'm being replaced? Why are they taking a shortcut? Is something missing? And yeah. There's a big attachment rupture. when the addiction, especially if it's been covered up, when that gets uncovered or discovered.

So that makes sense.

Tara McCausland: Yeah, that's really helpful. Well, I think it was Michelle Mays. She had talked about the fact that in addiction, the primary attachment person that they should be attaching with, whether it be their spouse or a parent, right, they have used the substance or the behavior as their primary attachment figure. Or, right, it's not a person of flesh and bone, but it's doing the job in the short term. And I had never really thought about it in those terms and realized, wow, no wonder it is so hard to kick addiction.

Yes. And I think particularly sex and porn addiction, and because it is such a powerful counterfeit to sexual attachment, That's true. We know that porn sex addiction isn't about sex, but it— and for a lot of people, when they don't understand this issue, they think that it is. Would you want to speak to that at all? Before we continue, I wanted to announce that registration for our 2026 SA Lifeline Virtual Conference happening November 13th and 14th is now live.

We will hear from 7 expert presenters. Uh, sharing practical insights on recovery from sexual addiction, betrayal trauma, and healing marriages and families. Why come? Well, I know that we do better when we know better, and connection is the opposite of addiction. So through education, connection, and intention, we can build meaningful momentum in recovery. Come ask your hard questions during live Q&As with our expert presenters and hear strength, hope, and experience from those Working their own recovery in live discussions.

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Jed Anderson: Yeah, no, that's very good. I think one of the reasons this is one of the hardest addictions to give up is that very thing. Attachment requires vulnerability, right? I've got to be able to put my heart out there a little bit if I'm the one with the stress and I've got to risk Or connecting if I'm the one engaging with them. So here's the thing with, with sex. If you think of human interaction, being naked with another human being is about as high as it goes on the scale of vulnerability.

It's way up there, if not at the very top. Yeah. And so what pornography is offering is this experience of super high vulnerability And no risk. Right? Like I'm not really connecting with this person that I've made any sacrifice for, or they're not really asking anything else of me, but I get to experience this super high vulnerable experience, at least for my brain. It feels like a real vulnerable thing. Obviously there's the fallout of that because when your prefrontal cortex comes back online, And you can see the big picture, you realize how fake it is and how, how empty it is.

But when your limbic brain is craving some vulnerability, some connection, and this quick fix option's right at your fingertips, which unfortunately just, it's never been more accessible than it is now. It's just really hard to fight off that craving to go. Take a quick fix.

Tara McCausland: Yeah. Especially if that's, I mean, if we're talking years, right? That has been the, the solution to the boredom, to the stress, and you've never successfully attached to a human being. Probably almost feels impossible to get your needs met because you've never really experienced that with, in a healthy relationship.

Jed Anderson: Yeah. And even if you've experienced it part of the time, I'd say most of my clients had what I would call pretty good parents. Like they were doing the best they could with the knowledge they had and the resources they had. But given that's the case, there's also a lot of lacking either in the form of time, knowledge, and insight, Or vulnerability to talk about these things, or it's just, there's a lot that was maybe messed up, not on purpose.

Yeah. So attachment theory and looking at wounds from childhood isn't about condemning our parents or our attachment figures. It's just about honestly speaking about our experience of attachment. So I think if I see one hesitancy in people sometimes in doing this work, it's I love my parents and I think they did the best they could. So I don't wanna, I don't wanna really go into those childhood wounds and feel like I'm judging or condemning them, but that's not what it's about.

It's about really looking at what happened, how it affected you, how it trained your, your attachment kind of template or model. Yeah. And how can we heal so that you can become a lot better at secure attachment?

Tara McCausland: Yeah. Well, and I, I know you're fairly open with the fact that you dealt with addiction, and that was partly the impetus for you getting into therapy and, and your clinical work. Would you be willing to delve a little bit into your own story and how this model was helpful for you in getting some traction in your healing?

Jed Anderson: For sure. Yeah. So yeah, my journey, I was, I was 9 years old when I was first exposed to pornography. We lived kind of on the outskirts of town and I was lucky enough to have a little motorcycle that my dad purchased for me and my brother. So just out exploring and, you know, saw this old barn that I thought looked cool on the side of the road. I'd seen it multiple times, but never explored it. Decided to go in and unfortunately someone had stashed some pornographic magazine pages in there.

And, um, I saw those and I didn't throw them down immediately, which, you know, was part of what made me feel later this idea that you're complicit and you're in on this. Uh, you know, it, it kind of lands and makes you feel, I am, maybe I am. Which, by the way, myself and others in the field, we consider early porn exposure to be a form of sexual abuse. 'Cause there's all the same, same feelings, the same messaging.

There might not be a literal person saying, hey, don't tell anybody. And by the way, you were in on this. Look, you enjoyed it and you stayed with it. Same patterns exist. And I could go on for a half hour describing that. But yeah, I didn't realize at the time, obviously, that I had just been experienced a form of sexual abuse. I just felt— bad and dirty, but also totally intrigued. And so I didn't tell my parents and, you know, kind of kept it hidden.

And of course, anytime I'd get on my motorcycle, there was that thought, maybe I should go take another look, you know? So the feeling of complicity just grew and grew every time I went back to look. So anyway, long story short, 6 years into my marriage, I was struggling. With what I finally admitted was an addiction. Before that, I had always hesitated to call it an addiction. I didn't want to be in that category or group. But yeah, I finally admitted this is an addiction.

So I got help and I went through LifeStar, which was for me a great program. It gave me a good foundation for sobriety and recovery. Your mom and dad were me and my wife's sponsors clear back in the day. They were just a couple years ahead of us in recovery, but huge part of why I feel like our recovery worked is because they were amazing sponsors and helped us work the 12 steps like we needed to. Yeah.

Then learning about attachment theory, I didn't realize up until the point of being in my master's program and this training I was getting in my internship that there were real wounds that I needed to address. Before that, I, I was looking at more of a, from a behavioral lens and I think obviously that got me to a certain point, but then attachment theory helped me realize like, man, there's some attachment wounds here that I need to address so that I can really heal.

And the ripple effect of that healing coming forward will have a whole different effect on my heart, my mind, my relationship with myself, with God, my wife. Because that's one thing we haven't talked about yet is Attachment, secure attachment is either there with God or it's not. And I think a lot of times we might not even realize that we don't have a secure attachment with God. We feel like we've checked a whole bunch of boxes, maybe that things that we're supposed to do and things we're supposed to know and believe, and those might be very real and sincere, but feeling A secure attachment with God is a whole different level.

And that's why I love steps 2 and 3 of the 12 steps invite us into this, you know, wrestle a little bit of like, hey, who is this higher power you believe in? Do you need to pull back a little bit and rethink anything there? How is your relationship feeling there? And how do you come connect and trust in a power greater than yourself? Like, That's all different language for the same thing we're talking about of need to find a secure attachment with God, because without it, the chances of long-term recovery just aren't as high.

Tara McCausland: I love that you bring that in. And I want to go back to that in a minute. Um, but let's address, so you had talked about this, this dance that a couple might get into as we're dealing with active addiction. And betrayal trauma. And we always like to be very clear that for a betrayed partner, you didn't cause it. You can't cure it. You can't fix it. Right. And there, but there's also this dynamic going on.

There's not a but there, there is a dynamic going on. And due to the addiction, you're experiencing trauma and there's just a lot of dysregulation and dysfunction. And it's just almost impossible. to have any semblance of a healthy relationship in that dynamic. So can you talk to me a little bit about how can this understanding of the attachment theory help a couple who's working on recovery? They wanna be able to see the dynamic and how that's impacting the relationship, but also be able to look at themselves individually and say, 'cause very often couples are not going to be working side by side.

at the same pace in their recovery work. Uh, and we want to heal the relationship, but— and we want that to be a secure attachment, but it's not going to align perfectly. So this is convoluted, but give us some guidance on working separate and together to heal the relationship with this model in mind.

Jed Anderson: Yeah, no, it's very good. One of the dilemmas I see a lot with couples is The addict has been living in avoidant attachment for a long time with their addiction. They've been hiding. It's been secret. They've had this shortcut going on. And interestingly, when it's finally brought to the light and exposed, a lot of times they actually feel a bit of relief. It's almost like all they've seen is darkness in the tunnel they've been in. And finally, there's actually a light at the end of the tunnel.

There's a lot of darkness between there, here and there, but it's like, oh my gosh, I finally feel a little bit of relief and hope because I'm not having this completely hidden anymore. So they might step out of avoidant attachment right into some relief. You know, they might go to a 12-step meeting and share a first-step inventory, and they might start learning about rigorous honesty and how much of a relief that can provide in their life.

And although their wife is really hurt because of the disclosure, they feel hope for the first time in maybe decades, years, I don't know. The wife, on the other hand, her life might have gone from feeling like there might be something going on here, but generally I think I feel okay. And, you know, there's, there's some good hope and Our relationship's, it's got some things, but it's, it's okay. And all of a sudden, all she can see is darkness and despair because the bomb just got dropped, you know?

So she might be entering into anxious attachment as he's starting to come out of avoidant. And it's like, so you're right, the timing is imperfect. One thing I try to help husbands understand is how patient they've got to be. As their wife goes through the pain of that period of time that's either disorganized or anxious attachment. Because if you get exasperated with her and you think she should be moving through that faster than she can, you're just going to create more insecure attachment.

So I teach guys something called the empathy template, which that could be a whole nother episode we could talk about is How to listen, because we want to go to some common reactions: apologize, promise, defend, explain, assure, self-punish, and exasperation. And all 7 of those feel like they might work to help fix what the wife is feeling, but they actually don't. They can trigger more frustration, maybe more anxious attachment. So empathy is so, so important for us to learn as our wife feels betrayal trauma, maybe has some reactions that look like disorganized attachment.

Like, so understanding that she's going to be going through some stuff and it could take some time is so important. And a real quick analogy I sometimes use to describe that is In the physical world, the only thing I can think of that might compare to betrayal trauma is like a third-degree burn. And there's a big difference between a first and second-degree burn and a third-degree. Third-degree burn involves nerve damage, and the healing process is so much longer.

Yeah. You gotta have skin grafts. The pain initially is so great that they put people into a coma sometimes if a certain percentage of their body has third-degree burns. They'll just be like medically induced coma for 2 months because being awake would be so excruciating that they wouldn't be able to survive. They might have a heart attack from the pain. So anyway, it's kind of similar, like depending on how big of a bomb goes off, it's Literally like a third-degree burn.

I mean, so you wouldn't walk into a burn unit, someone who's been there for 3 weeks and go to the bed and be like, come on, you've been here 3 weeks, get up and get back to real life. No. That would be so crazy. You'd be thrown outta there. But sometimes I think wives feel like they're supposed to hurry up and feel better or hurry up and forgive or hurry up and get back to this secure attachment. And they're like, I still got skin grafts going on, you know, so to speak.

And so yeah, that, that initial phase is so important to get right and to have the right help because if you don't get it right, you might never really have a shot at healing the attachment ruptures and getting back to secure attachments. So I don't rush couples into like forgiveness or healing. I think they need to take their time and do it right. Obviously, the eventual goal is to get back to a secure attachment dance and the healing that can come from that.

Um, that takes a lot of time in most cases.

Tara McCausland: Yeah. I actually really like that analogy with the third-degree burn. Very often I've heard the analogy of the car crash and it was the addict that was driving, right? It wasn't the intent to injure, uh, their spouse, but lots of collateral damage, right, from their choices. But I like that different perspective, as you had described, that like the nerve damage, there's, there are layers of healing that have to happen, and that's going to take a lot of time.

And if it, if someone that's dealing with an active addiction and they've been discovered, or there's been a disclosure, and they're feeling that relief, they're like, come on, shouldn't you feel some relief too? As if like, We're connected at the hip. We can just do this journey together. It's like, no, her world has just been shattered. There's this huge rupture and her nervous system is registering you as the enemy. Yeah. And you're still probably still in the same space, in the same bed.

But for the person that's dealing with an addiction to register that her nervous system, that, that very physiological response is saying, You are not safe. Get away from me. And, but then you might be doing that dance of, but I still love you. You're my husband. So she might be warm one day and want to run the next day or raging another day. Mm-hmm. So I think the empathy piece, which can be really hard because addicts are not traditionally known to be incredibly empathic, that's going to be something that you'll really need to be working on with a therapist.

Mm-hmm. And with your sponsor to see reality. Let's draw this back now to, you had talked about developing this secure relationship with God, 'cause we know at SA Lifeline, we talk a lot about, we have 2 people in this relationship, the addict and the betrayed, and they're not going to heal on the same timeline. Mm-hmm. Um, but they both need secure attachment for healing. And so we'll often look first then to that relationship with God. And that is where the 12 steps are so helpful.

So can you talk a little bit about how the 12 steps can be so helpful for both the betrayed and the addicted in their initial healing? And then as they draw closer to God, it can help in the healing of the relationship.

Jed Anderson: Let me show you from this book. I wanted to introduce this book to you. This is my favorite book on Secure attachment or attachment theory called Secure Love by Julie Menanno. This list comes from pages 23 and 24. So whether you think of your relationship with your spouse or with God, these would be the things that you need to know for it to feel like a secure attachment. That, you know, you value me and our relationship. Again, think of step 2 and coming to believe in a power greater than yourself.

It's not just believe that they're there, that literally a greater power exists. It's that they're this type of person that values you in your relationship, that actually responds in moments when I reach out. And this would be probably more for a spouse, but You'll reach to me for support in times of need. You won't just shut down and go quiet. That would probably be God's need for us. Like, we'll actually reach out and say something instead of just going avoidant.

You appreciate me and my efforts. My needs as an individual matter to you. You hold me in high esteem. That one can be really tricky for addicts to feel with God because they feel like And look what I've done. I'm such a screw-up. I'm such a horrible person. And how could you hold me in high esteem given what I've done? And so it can be really important personal work there in being willing to accept and receive grace, forgiveness, love.

You're willing to see and understand me. My feelings are valid to you. That can be powerful too, especially There's a type of therapy called Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and it teaches us to actually accept the fact that we're experiencing a craving or that we're being enticed by lust, because feelings aren't necessarily the problem. It's how are we coping with them and what are we doing with that stress and pressure? So even being able to feel like God can sit with me in my craving without wanting to shove me away or condemn me, or, um, you respect me.

There's a clear path to pleasing you. That can be interesting with God too. You see me as a successful partner. I can trust your love and loyalty, and you can, you trust my love and loyalty. So these are just things that each person can maybe take one at a time and, and put on a scale from 1 to 10, for example, and say, okay, 10 would be, this feels totally dialed in and spot on with how I would describe either myself in this relationship or God or my wife in this relationship.

And if you give yourself, if you're at a 7 or higher, you're probably doing pretty good. If you're a 6 or lower, you probably have some stuff to really look at and refocus on, or, you know, look, look at it differently. And so anyway, that can give you some ideas into the work of Step 2. I think sometimes people overlook the fact that there's a work in Step 2. It's not just, do you believe there's a power greater than yourself?

It's like, okay, I do, but what about that? Do I really believe that he sees me and holds me in high esteem? Does he even want to have connection with me? Like, A personal story I'll share from my Step 2 work. I was raised that prayer needed to always be quite formal, that you're supposed to kneel down, fold your hands or interlock your fingers, or however you do it, and bow your head. Now, I don't think there's anything wrong about that type of prayer.

It's very formal and can be really good. But for me, As I examined my relationship with God, I was like, how often do I say anything new? Am I just saying thanks for the same things I've said thanks for 10,000 times? And am I asking for the same basic things I've asked for about the same number of times? And if I was God, maybe I'd have someone, someone listening or a software listening that said, hey, if anything new is said, notify me.

If not, I already know what Jed's gonna say. That doesn't feel like secure attachment to me. It feels like I'm checking a box. I'm doing something I'm supposed to do, but it didn't feel like a relationship. And so I kind of let that sit to the side for a minute. I decided to try— actually, step 11 inspired me to think about this differently. It says we You try to have conscious contact with God. I thought, holy crap, conscious contact.

That sounds amazing and terrifying all at the same time. Like, could I have conscious contact with God? And I decided to just start having more prayer where my heart was drawn out. And I tried to just ask a question like, what's the next right thing? And My experience of prayer shifted a lot. But anyway, don't want to go too far off on a tangent, but that's an example of work tied to Step 2 and 11 that for me came together in a way that shifted my feeling of secure attachment to God.

Tara McCausland: I love hearing your personal experience. I've often heard from people who are dealing with both addiction and trauma that they have to go to ground zero. with their relationship with God so that their old conceptions can go away and they can better understand who God is. Not from parents, you know, oftentimes our parents kind of become God figures for us and they're imperfect mortals. That's not a good place to get your God figure from. Anyhow, so I appreciate the personal sharing because I know that, uh, for all of us, it's going to be a very personal journey.

Yeah. As we're working through old wounds from childhood, reconnecting with God from a healthier space, a more secure space, believing that we are worthy of love always, which so many people, doesn't matter what faith tradition they come from, it's so human to believe, how could I be lovable if I struggle with addiction or if I have been betrayed? How could God have let this happen to me? Right. Anyway, now I'm kind of going off into the weeds, but well, this has been so good, and I hope for our listeners that you now have a clear understanding or a better idea of what attachment theory is all about and how this understanding can help you in your own healing journey, this, this quality education.

But before I let you go, Jed, if people want to connect with you, where's the best place for them to do that?

Jed Anderson: Yeah, just my website's probably easiest. LDSHopeAndRecovery.com. My email is jed@ldshopeandrecovery.com. I'll be happy to hear from anybody, or if you have questions or want a PDF of these handouts, I'd love to connect with you. Yeah, I love recovery. I'm so grateful for its impact in my life. There's a promise in the 12 Promises from the 12 steps that says we will not regret the past, or wish to shut the door on it. The first time I heard that, I was like, who's the nut that wrote this?

Yes. I was like, that's crazy. I can't imagine ever not regretting this past or wishing to shut the door on it. But in a way, I'm so grateful that I experienced the fall in and an addiction that came from it. And because it's the thing that opened the door to a deeper relationship and I don't think my relationship would be as personal as it is. I don't think my secure attachment with God would be what it is had I not experienced the deep need for it.

And this opened the door to my realization of how deep my need is. Everything else in my life I could figure out with hard work and self-discipline, no matter what it was— school, learning a new language. Whatever it was, hard work, self-discipline, got it. Not this. This was kicking my butt. And it was again the thing that helped me realize like, I've got to learn what it means to surrender. Got to learn what it means to let go and need it and connect with other people and work a program.

It was hard, so hard, but so worth it. Yeah.

Tara McCausland: Our bookend question is, what would you tell people who are just starting this pathway to recovery? And what would you tell somebody that has been doing this work for a while and they could use a boost?

Jed Anderson: There's so much importance in trusting honesty and vulnerability, and there may be some things in your life up to this point that have made you feel like those 2 things are too dangerous or too scary. So whatever work you need to do, whatever professional you need to work with to get to a point where you can trust vulnerability and honesty, do that. Start there. Because the last thing you can afford is to only be partially true. Or only trust vulnerability partially, it'll come back to bite you and it can hijack and ruin the recovery faster than anything else.

So you gotta start there. And if you're in this, like, just keep going. It's a journey, not an event. I believe what we're developing is actually a lifestyle in recovery. If you look at steps, 10, 11, and 12, that describes to me what it means to be living in recovery. You know, you're continuing to take your personal inventory, promptly admitting when you're wrong. That's tying you back to humility, honesty, and transparency. 11 is you're working on having that more mature, secure attachment with God through conscious contact and seeking His will for you.

And Step 12 is all about, you know, give back. You've gone through a pretty powerful journey. Now it's your turn to reach the hand back and help someone else, you know, practice these principles, continue practicing them in your own life, but also offer that hand of fellowship and brotherhood. And your dad's one of my favorite examples of Step 12, man. He's— your mom too, but man, just, they live Step 12 and it's so inspiring. It's just how they live.

The good news is it'll become, it'll become who you are. And it's a great way to live. So worth the effort, so worth hanging in there and letting it become who you are instead of something that you have to force yourself in or whatever. It just becomes who you are. So it's totally worth it. If you'll use the right resources and have a sincere desire to just do your part. Good things are coming. If you're in the work, if you're in the thick of it, you've been doing it for a while, just keep going.

Believe that the right resources with time and effort, they do heal. Like there's an old saying, time heals all wounds. That's only half truth. Time combined with the right resources and the right efforts heals all wounds. I believe that's true. So whatever your wounds are, they can be healed. Just gotta have the right formula.

Tara McCausland: Recovery living is a beautiful life, right? I love that. Well, thank you so much, Judd, for your insight. And I'm grateful for the strength, hope, and experience also that you shared. I can see that you are a man of conviction and because of the path you walked, you're helping a lot of people. So thank you again for your time. And appreciate the great work you're doing. Keep it up. Absolutely. Thanks, Tara.

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