Step 12 – In ALL Aspects of Our Lives w/ Chris S

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families. Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery podcast.

Justin B.: Before we get into this amazing conversation with Chris S. on Step 12, I just want to make the announcement that in just a couple of weeks, the SAL 12-Step In-Person Conference of 2025 will be taking place at Utah Valley University in Orem, Utah. That's Saturday, Saturday, April 26th through Saturday, April 28th. That's right. From 9:00 AM to 3:00 PM. You can buy tickets now on the sal12step.org website, and it's a really low-priced ticket— $15 for a person, for an individual, $25 for a couple.

We highly recommend you attend as a couple. This is— we're going to have 2 amazing presenters, Jonathan Taylor and Courtney Weaver, and it's a full-day experience which includes breakout sessions tailored to both men and women at different stages in working the steps. Our breakout sessions will include a Women's 101, which includes surrender, steps 1 through 3, and overcoming hurdles in step 4, and a Women's 201, which includes sponsorship, step 12, and long-term step work. The Men's 101 will include sobriety tools, resources, and connecting with your higher power, and 201 will include sponsorship, empathy, amends, steps 8 through 10, and building connection.

So whether you're just beginning or have been working the steps for years, this conference is for you. Let's gather in strength, support, and the shared hope of recovery. We can't wait to see you there. Welcome everybody to the Pathway to Recovery podcast. I'm Justin. I am a son of an all-powerful, perfectly loving God and a recovering sex addict living in the miracle of recovery. And I am sitting here across from one of my favorite people in the rooms of recovery, Chris S.

Just grateful to have been able to sit here and watch his pathway to recovery over the last handful of years as we've been walking together in the rooms of SAL. So Chris, why don't you take just a minute, introduce yourself, and share with us why you are in the rooms of SAL?

Chris S.: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Justin. I appreciate it. Chris S. I am a sex and lust addict, and I have found the recovery rooms in large part due to my wife. She was familiar with The Crochets and had spent some time in her childhood knowing their family. And so when I disclosed my— at that time, I wasn't declaring myself an addict, but when I was declaring that I had a problem with pornography and masturbation and shared that with her, this time, 3 years ago, we thankfully had some great resources due to the connections and her experience.

And with that, it allowed us to find SAO very quickly. I started attending meetings pretty quickly, and the first few were a bit challenging for me, but I found a home group that I have grown to love and has become my support network and has just really been just a light, a ray of hope and joy in my life.

Justin B.: Thank you for sharing that, Chris. And I really appreciate, one, that we share A little bit in common there that our wives drove us in this way. And my wife was very versed in 12-step recovery before I ever was willing to step into the rooms. Your wife was very versed, or at least connected with resources that could do that. So tell me how that has been a help for you, that your wife is on the same path right now trying to walk with you.

Chris S.: Yeah, I think one of the great things is she understands the value of working recovery slowly over time, come to learn and understand the value of recovery and working the program. And so finding SAL and finding a brotherhood of people that I could share openly and honestly about my challenges without judgment, without preconceived notions, and really without a lot of fear of conveying to those people who at one point were strangers and now have become close brothers.

has really magnified and changed the way that I'm able to work recovery. And it's just changed the approach in how I've wanted and continue to try to improve the way I live.

Justin B.: Yeah. Thank you, Chris. When you first introduced yourself, you said, I'm a, I think you said I'm a sex and lust addict. And then as you were saying, when I first came into the rooms, it was a real challenge for me to identify that way. I thought I just had a problem with porn, with masturbation. Tell me about the change that happened, the light switch that flipped on that helped you realize, man, I'm, I'm an addict, and I'm going to identify that way.

Chris S.: Yeah, I think ultimately spending time in the rooms of recovery and continuing to attend meetings. As I listened to other brothers share their experience, it helped me to get comfortable with and understand that There are so many similarities between what I'm hearing and what I'm reading and the materials that are before me. I can't deny the reality of the addiction that I have. The unmanageability was too clear and too prevalent in my life to recognize that I can't do this on my own.

Therefore, I must be an addict and I need a higher power and I need more support and help and resource to do this. And Why not give this a shot and commit fully? And in doing so, coming to terms with understanding that, yes, I am an addict really freed up my capacity and ability to be receptive to that term, that label. And I've struggled with labels and terms throughout my life. And so it was a bit of a challenge, but once I embraced it, it was, I guess, another milestone in that recovery puzzle for myself.

Justin B.: That's so interesting. You talked about labels, terms that are put on us, that we put on ourselves, whatever. And so often those labels, they pigeonhole us in a place. Do you feel pigeonholed in being labeled as an addict? And let's be honest in this conversation. When you say, hey, I'm an addict, how does that make you feel? And where does that put you?

Chris S.: Yeah, I think I have gone through an evolution there. It used to be this pariah of something that I didn't want to associate with myself. But I think as I'm honest in recognizing where I'm at and who I am, it doesn't define me. I define myself with many other labels, son of God, husband, father, many other labels that are more meaningful and resonate with me and are more apt to who I am. But this is a struggle that I have and that I have struggled with.

And therefore I won't turn away from the label of an addict because It is something that I have struggled with and have struggled to deal with. And in that process, I've accepted and embraced the label of an addict because it helps me come to terms with where I'm at and who I am. I mean, it's not the definition of who I am, but it is the sickness and illness that I have. Yeah.

Justin B.: And to me, that's shining a light on something that is, that's the honesty of it. You know what? I, I am a son of God. When I shine a light on that, it helps me go, oh, that means a lot more than I think it does. When I say, you know what, I'm an addict and I shine a light on it, it means a lot more than what the world thinks it is. It doesn't mean that I'm this guy in a trench coat that's walking around out on the corners of the street and homeless.

It means a lot more than that to me. What types of different Perspectives and insights do you gain on that as you continue to walk this path in recovery?

Chris S.: Yeah, I think for me, it helps me to see and recognize that there's opportunity for growth. It's not something that I'm stuck forever in. While I will need to work recovery for the rest of my life, it's something that I can continue to progress and move in a positive, healthy direction. As long as I embrace the steps, as long as I do the work, as long as I do what I need to do, I can accept and embrace this element of who I am.

More importantly, I can share that element of who I am with others. I think I'm at a stage in my recovery now where if people want to accept and put a label or respond to me in a certain way as a result of that label, so be it. I can handle that. I've done enough work to put my big boy pants on and to be able to work and accept that and embrace that. Because not everyone is going to be open and receptive to understanding that label.

But there are far too many people who need help in this world that may or may not identify with that label, but are struggling with this challenge. And so if I can be an advocate or a support or a milestone to be an instrument in God's hands to helping another brother of mine find the strength, hope, and peace that I have found, then it's 100% worth it. And for me, it's just a journey of bringing light and hope to others because what I have found is worth sharing.

Justin B.: Beautiful. Thank you, Chris. And that leads us right into what we're doing here. Everybody who's been following along knows that for the last several months, we've been doing the 12 steps of recovery, covering each step, one with an addict, one with a betrayed partner, And this is the culmination. This is step 12 that Chris and I are sitting down and going over. So Chris, what I'd like to do is just go through and read each of these 12 steps, and I'm going to read all 12 of them because this is the 12th step.

And then we'll sit and we'll focus on what step 12 is and what meaning that has in your life and how you try to, like you said, share it with others. All right, here are the 12 steps of SAL. Step 1, we admitted we were powerless over sexual addiction. That our lives had become unmanageable. Step 2, came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. Step 3, made a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

Step 4, made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5, admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6, were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. Humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings. Made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

Continued to take personal inventory and, when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood him. Praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. And step 12, having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others and to practice these principles in all aspects of our lives. So, Chris, as I go through those, why don't you talk to me just really quick, summarize the first 11 steps, some of the things that were important to you as you got there, because we've got to build up to step 12, and tell us some of the things that really helped you evolve into the ability to work step 12.

Chris S.: Yeah, I think one of the key things was ultimately coming to terms with step 1 of admitting my powerlessness. I have always felt like I could just do things myself. And so just coming to terms that this was an unmanageable thing that I couldn't handle and control and work on my own in my life. I think I was doing elements of step 12 before I wrapped up other steps because I found peace and hope and value In a lot of the steps as they go.

And all 12 steps are critical in the program, but the order in which some of them fall in my life was really interesting. Deeply involved in step 9 still, and still actively trying to work on that piece of the amends that need to be made for many of those people who have been harmed as a result of this addiction. But that said, I found a lot of peace in just identifying and working through each of the elements of this journey.

And again, 4 was a monster for me. It was one of those steps that took me a tremendous amount of time to really dig into those elements from childhood up until now to get to where I'm at. But I guess ultimately all of these steps play a critical role in helping me understand. And as I continue to go back and revisit them at different phases of my recovery and of my journey, I find that there's elements that I can add that both help myself as well as allow me to share with others.

what I have learned as I've gone back and revised. In fact, one of the things I just recently did, a step 1 phase 2, as I call it, because I went and talked about the emotional side instead of just the historical fact side of my journey. And it was really an eye-opener for me, but it really helped me and has helped me to get unstuck in a little bit of the work that I've been doing lately.

Justin B.: Wow. That's really cool. I am totally intrigued by this emotional step 1 phase 2, as you called it. But I do want to just touch on it. How did that help you get unstuck? And you've been in program now for 3 years. I don't recall what your sobriety date is, but you've been sober for a good chunk of time. Why did you feel you were stuck and needed to address it in a different way?

Chris S.: I think one of the things is from an SAL definition of sobriety, July 15th, 2021 is that date. And that's when I've set aside pornography and masturbation and created that progress towards lust, but I found that the emotional side and that lusting element was a deep gap that I had within myself. And that sobriety date is much more recent, only a week ago. And so that's opened my eyes, like I need to redo work and focus on the emotional component of this beyond just working the steps and working through the pure definition of sobriety.

Justin B.: Yeah, that's so interesting. I've talked to a lot of people in different formats about emotional sobriety and the concept of that. And I'm going to be talking with somebody this next week about even the next step, spiritual sobriety. We got physical sobriety, we've got emotional sobriety, we've got spiritual sobriety that I'm just going to be learning about here in about a week. But I love how they feed off of one another and they build into one another.

Let's jump to step 12 and go into the first phrase of step 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, talk to me about that process of that spiritual awakening. What does that look like in your experience, Chris?

Chris S.: Yeah, I think it's that movement to action part, right? My higher power, I believe firmly, wants me to one, recognize who I am in a healthy context and That took some time for me to come to terms with who I was and where I was in this journey. And once I came to terms with that and was able to open that dialogue in a way that I never had, I've been a religious person my entire life, and I felt like I was a strong, devoutly religious person, but that connection and power with God has waned and not been what it is today.

Because I haven't allowed him to guide me and direct me in a lot of the things I was doing, too many things in life on my own, under my willpower. And once I've turned to him, it's awoken within me an understanding of a greater perspective. It allows a little bit more humility to creep into my life, which is definitely a massive need in my life on a regular routine basis. And it's just allowed me to embrace and accept that it's not all about me.

It's not about what I think is best. It's what can I do to be guided on a day-in, day-out basis to open my eyes to whatever my higher power wants Chris to do today. And that has not always been the way that I've lived, and it's not always been the foremost thought within my mind. And therefore, as a result, it's really changed by seeing things in his light instead of my own light, which is a much dimmer light.

Justin B.: And that's super interesting and powerful, Chris. I love this. And it seems that SAL seems to attract people who lived religion their whole lives. Religion was what drove them, and yet religion couldn't solve their little problem that they had. How has that progress, evolution, change looked like in your life from religion, the black and white practicing of religion, to the practicing of the steps, to that spiritual awakening that we experience by working these steps?

Chris S.: Yeah, I think the premise and basis of religion is faith, and faith is action, and it's doing something. And I think that there's a lot of motions and prescribed steps that I've taken in my life and my motivation and commitment and desire to do those was always out of obligation and moving along because I had to. This was the right thing to do. This was the expectation of others, whether it be family members, whether it be friends, whether it be social circle influences, whatever that might be.

And I have found that it comes down to coming to terms with myself of How do I accept and embrace things that may look different for me with how I go about living this faith-filled steps of actioning the things that are within my heart in a way that resonates as honest and true for me, that may not be the perfect caricature of which I've always felt has been prescribed and laid out for me. And it took a long time for me to get comfortable with Chris is Chris and Chris can live his religion and be connected to his higher power in a way that is meaningful to me and not as prescribed by everyone else.

Justin B.: Love that. And I totally identify with that completely and thoroughly. The way that I practice my faith has changed pretty drastically, but as I look at it, I believe that the fruits speak for themselves. That I've become a stronger practitioner of my faith and a more pure practitioner of my faith than I was when I was trying to check all the boxes. What are some things that have changed for you? You mentioned you may not look like the previously described perfect practitioner of your faith beforehand, but what does that look like to you now?

Chris S.: I think one thing is SAL has taught me the value of vulnerability. I always felt like I had to carry a persona and an image that this is the way Chris is. This is the way our family is. And we portray this image of who we are. And I think through this program, it's helped me to get honest with myself and vulnerable with others and saying, actually, this is really who Chris is. And he's working, he's trying, But there's a lot of flaw.

There's a lot of gap and there's a lot of work that needs to be done here. And let me share with you what my gap and what my thing is. And I have found as I've shared that vulnerability and those weaknesses and those character defects with others, it really quickly sets the stage for others to say, actually, thanks for sharing. This is where I'm at. And it allows us to get to a common ground. And there may not be a sex addiction.

They may have another challenge or struggle within their life. But because I'm able to share what I'm experiencing, what I'm going through, and not put a pretense of who I am, it allows others to get more vulnerable with themselves. And then we can talk about the things that will allow us to heal and grow together in whatever our weakness or our struggle or our challenge or character defects might be, because we're comfortable in talking openly and honestly with each other instead of hiding behind a pretense.

Justin B.: Yeah, I love that. And that takes us right into the next phrase. And I think you've described it very well, but we're going to sit there for a minute. First phrase was, Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others. So, Chris, you just shared how that kind of looks. I'm vulnerable. I share some things in my life. I may not spill the beans in church, the exact details of what I'm struggling with, but I'm vulnerable about, hey, I'm not perfect.

I'm a mess. And here's what I'm looking at. How do you practice carrying the message to others?

Chris S.: I think when I first came. SAL, I just assumed every male was a porn and sex addict, and I just justified my way through life. And while I do believe it is a pervasive problem that many struggle with, one thing that I absolutely am certain of is everyone has a problem of some sort. And the message, while mine is around addiction, everyone's got a message and a story to share. And I am very interested in understanding everyone around me's message of whatever they're going through.

And I want to get to a point to where they are comfortable sharing with me, and I am comfortable sharing with them what our message is, whatever that might be. And so for me, it's just breaking down those walls and those barriers to open up that pathway to Peace, that pathway to someone else in this world cares enough to know who I am and understand me and what I'm going through and what I'm struggling with. And that's really shifted because at first I was on a hunt for, okay, who are the addicts?

Who are the people that I can figure out that should be joining me in the meeting and that I should invite to come and participate in this journey with me? I'm on a journey to find others who really have the need and desire to share what's going on in their lives, but don't have anyone that they can share or trust to get that message out. And I want to be a recipient and a pathway for them to share the challenge and struggle with what they're going through, whatever that might be, and then share mine as well, because that will give me greater strength and hope as I continue to share my journey and my experience as well.

Justin B.: Man, Chris, I love how you're describing this. I've never put that into words for myself, but that's what's driven me or invited me into doing these types of things, these podcasts, having these conversations with others, because I want to know what's most important to other people and what their struggles are and what the solution is that they're finding or not finding. And being able to share that with them or hear them talk through it and come to the conclusion on their own, it's really a cool experience.

Have you had experiences where somebody just shared stuff with you and went, man, I have never had the opportunity or taken the opportunity to share anything like that with anybody else? And how has that affected you?

Chris S.: Yeah, absolutely. When I went through my Step 1 inventory, that was absolutely the first time that I had divulged my sexual acting out history with others. And I still find those people who were in that meeting Years ago as some of my closest associates. I reach out and talk to them on a very regular basis. And it was fascinating to me that when I was open and honest and spilled what I viewed as my terrible wounds and opened every part of me to that small group of brothers, it has literally changed the way that I found that when I'm open and honest with people can still receive me.

and love me and accept me for who I am and experience that. And I have found that as I've shared components of my step 1 with those, even not in the halls of addiction or in recovery, there is a genuine willingness to be involved in others' lives and to learn and grow from that. And then as I've sat through others' experiences with others who are struggling with their own issues and challenges, whether that be food challenges or suicide ideation or whatever those are, I've had many experiences with others who have had challenges and struggles as a result of me sharing my experience and journey.

And it's just great to hear that ultimately the steps of 12-step work in any issue you're struggling with. This is not a sex addiction 12-step only. It started with alcohol. Now it's moved to sex and it's applicable to so many elements of life. That once you've worked through these steps and applied them, it's really a framework and a foundation for conveying solid principles to others to help benefit and bless their lives.

Justin B.: Yeah. I want to sit here for just a minute on this, on the 12 steps. This was my own thinking before coming into the rooms. One, I'm not powerless over anything. That was one of the things that kept me out of the rooms. Mm-hmm. Was that admission of powerlessness was not gonna happen. 2, and this was the religion in me speaking, a God of my own understanding, God of my, the God of my understanding today. And that was a big hangup for me.

How can anybody say God is different for them, that they can create their own God? My mind was like, it can be a doorknob or a tree or whatever. Talk to me about that evolution or your understanding of God of your own understanding at this point.

Chris S.: Yeah, I've heard it said many times that it takes years to wipe the face of whoever that authoritative figure is off of the face of my God. And that resonates with me because there are many authority figures in my life, whether that be parents, whether that have been church leaders, whether that have been supervisors that I've had in my career. There's been many authoritative figures who I have created this image of God using that authoritarian punitive approach and really just seeing the justice side of God for so much of my life.

And I have come to terms with the God of my understanding is a God of mercy, a God of compassion, a God of love. If these finite people who I love and have respected so much that they have given me and taught me throughout my life have done what they have done and helped me, I'm grateful for it, but that's not who God is. God is a much greater and supreme being than any human figure. And while I try and put that associative concepts of things that I can grasp and understand from experiences that I've had in life, God is so much grander and so much greater than these mortal beings that I love and have associated with through much of my life.

But there's so much more there to who and what he is for me and to me.

Justin B.: And does that God of your understanding continue to become clearer, evolve, change from your perspective?

Chris S.: Absolutely. I view it as I'm starting to have the relationship that I've always wanted to have with God. And as that relationship strengthens, I see and know him more intimately. And that allows me to shift the way that I interact with him because I want to interact with him differently because I feel it differently within myself. And therefore that ultimately drives me to turn to him because I see the value of what is offered through my higher power, as opposed to my perception of if I do these steps, These certain things will come.

It's almost like that proverbial vending machine. I do this and then I get this in return from what I've done. And that's not at all how it works. It's my God is much more than a transactional God. He is an intimate, personal God who wants to know me and wants to hear from me. And in that process, it draws me to him and draws my countenance and reflection of who I want to be and what I want to be in a completely different direction.

Justin B.: Thank you for describing these things so beautifully. It really is helpful to me, and hopefully others out there are like, well, that helps me see this more clearly. All right, the last phrase in Step 12 says, and to practice these principles in all aspects of our lives. First, talk to me about your understanding of practicing the principles. What principles are you practicing here?

Chris S.: Yeah, I think it's continually working on those character defects. It's continually shining and magnifying those things and not looking at them from a shame lens, but rather say, look, this is an area of opportunity that I have to improve. The other thing is it doesn't have to be perfect. I don't have to immediately make an amends within X number of hours to be a good person. It's, I need to recognize that I need to make this amends and it's doing the things that I need to work on, helping others recognize and understand that I did something hurtful and wrong in this situation, and I want to do something different and change.

And sometimes I don't see it as quick and as fast as I would like to. And sometimes the principles that I get evolve. And sometimes I'm like, oh, I've, I think I've mastered this skill. And every time I think that, I have an eye-opening experience where God just rips my eyes open. It's like, no, you're just still an infant in this journey of trying to understand what it is that I really want you to learn and understand.

But the beauty is the principles of what I'm spending my time and energy and focus on is taking small bite-sized chunks of loyalty conflict. That's one thing that gets me from the enmeshment of my background. That is a huge challenge in my life. Kindness, rigorous honesty, humility, just so many elements that I continually turn back to the steps to say, what are the tweaks that I need and what step is going to help me address this?

And so for me, the value is now that I have the 12 steps and I can think about the areas that I want to improve in my life, I can turn my focus to, okay, what step is going to help me in this process? And the beauty is I have a sponsor. I have someone else that I can reach out to and turn to and say, hey, look, I think this is what I'm trying to do. This is, I think, what will help me.

What are your thoughts? What are your recommendations? And then beyond just a great sponsor, who I have the best sponsor in the world, by the way, I can also expand that and work with others in the group to create a think tank and just kick around ideas until it formulates and gels into something that Chris can call his own and that I can declare as, that's where I stand on this principle and on this thing now.

And it's always evolving because I'm learning and I'm constantly getting new information and insight and perspective, which allows that evolution to continually take place.

Justin B.: But Chris, I want to push back here. You mean to tell me that when I go through my 12 weeks of doing the steps or 12 months or however long it takes to doing the steps, I'm not done. I don't graduate and I'm suddenly healed and can move on. What's the point of even doing this? Yeah.

Chris S.: Ultimately, this is a 12-step process to healthy living. This is the recipe, in my opinion, that allows me to Do the work necessary to see what I need to do to continually improve and evolve. And I guess ultimately when I declare that I am perfected and no longer need to be here because I've mastered every principle that God wants me to master on this earth, then I'll be done with 12-step. But to me, it doesn't replace religion, but it has sound principles founded upon a higher power and upon spirituality, which allows growth and progress to take place.

And so, Insofar as I continue to need religion in my life to continue to improve my life and be better and work on those, I need 12 steps because there's just truth and principles. I've worked regularly, consistently, and daily. I will be a better person as a result because it's become a part of who I am and what I need to become the person of who I want to be. And I've shifted my mindset of, oh, I've got to do step work to, This is step work that I want to do because I want to be a better person and I can't do it without working components of these steps.

I can't do it on my own. It's not the world of Chris. This is the world of a very tried and true program that works.

Justin B.: So you mentioned that you have the best sponsor in the world and that's awesome. And you having quote unquote completed the 12 steps in your life. Yes, you're still working on step 9, but that's what we all do our whole lives as we continue working those steps. Why do you still need a sponsor, Chris?

Chris S.: Because while he doesn't have all the answers and I don't have all the answers, it is a resource that I go to that will help me because he has trudged this road of happy destiny and he's slogging away in it as well. And in that process, there's further insight and knowledge and information that comes, which is Critical to me, not just seeing the world according to Chris. It allows me to see the world from another perspective and another lens.

He keeps me honest and accountable to those elements that sometimes I want to justify and blame my way out. Those addictive tendencies still creep up way too often. And I think that's one of the surprises is like, ah, I did it. Like, I'm going to be freed of this. I'm going to be perfectly honest, humble, accountable, like all of these elements are just going to be perfectly flawless in my life and not. And I need a sounding board.

I need someone that I trust and who has shown and demonstrated to me the value of that honesty, accountability, humility, and will call me on it when I break outside of that because I'm trying to justify my way.

Justin B.: Awesome. You sounds like you got a great sponsor. Now, how do you give back? Are you sponsoring others? I am.

Chris S.: I have several sponsees.

Justin B.: Talk to us about the importance of sponsoring others and why you do several sponsees.

Chris S.: Yeah, I love sponsoring because it allows me to, in the purest form of Step 12, give back. It allows me to work the steps with somebody else. And in the process, it's one of those miraculous things that the program is While they're working the steps and you're facilitating that growth in that journey that they're having, there's so many shared insights that come that allow growth and progress from both the sponsor and the sponsee to both flourish and grow because there's so many common threads that are tied through this addiction and through the maladies of life and the problems that people have.

And insofar as I want to continue to See growth and progress in my life and that of others, I will continue to sponsor until the day I die because it's just that important to continue to help others in their journey. And I think that's a critical need that is absolutely instrumental in this program working because you have to have someone that you can lean on and trust and develop that relationship to help keep you focused on the things that will continue pointing you up towards a higher power that will help guide and ultimately provide the answers, that moral person that's going to provide those insights and the instructions to help point me in the right direction.

Justin B.: So when your sponsor first said, all right, Chris, time for you to sponsor somebody, what were your thoughts at that point?

Chris S.: Nervous, inadequate, not ready. I can't do this. Where do I start? Do I have time? Can I commit to this? A lot of just natural gut inclinations that are really just excuses for me not diving in and doing what ultimately is going to help myself and help others in the journey of recovery. Yeah. A lot of fear, a lot of nerve. And ultimately it was one of the greater decisions I've ever made is picking to choose, hey, I'm ready to do this.

I'm ready to help someone else on their journey. And yeah. It's not perfect. It's not flawless, but let's fumble through this together and figure it out. And you get better over time. And it's one of those things, the more you practice, the more you get better. And then the fine-tuning and honing of the skill just improves as you progress along the journey. Yeah.

Justin B.: And beautiful. You said something that I want to sit on for a minute. Do I have time? Chris, you have a wife, you have kids, you work. Sounds like you have some church responsibilities that take up time. You have a life, you have hobbies that you want to do. Do you have time to sponsor? You said, I have several sponsees. How does that time get made for you?

Chris S.: Yeah, I think the quickest thing that helped me understand I had time, I made space for my addiction and I spent so much time doing things that were unproductive and the amount of time I spent on social media and other avenues in my life that weren't of the greatest value in serving me in areas that were helpful. It just required a shift in prioritization. There's always time for things that are important. And to me, there's nothing more important than people.

And people need help and people need sponsors. And I am far better off in serving other people in doing that with my time than spending time on the myriad of things that I do that were not as productive and then not as healthy. And so as I looked, I would watch television, I would watch football. I love football. And I can carve a piece out of all of these elements and there's time, there's space. And the more you give, the more time you actually realize you have.

And quite honestly, it's a force multiplier because I found that the more things I have on my plate, more well-rounded and better off I am because it allows me to engage and find productive ways to give back as opposed to being in those selfish pursuits of doing what I want all the time and doing what is helpful to someone else's life journey.

Justin B.: Yeah, that concept that there is sufficient time to do those things is so powerful because even now, And I look at my life from the outside and not from the inside, and oftentimes from the inside too. And I go, I don't have time for that. I don't have time for this. I don't have time for those things. I'm too busy. And yet when I sit back and I look at my weekly report of my phone report that sends to me every Sunday morning while I'm sitting in church, and it says, this was your average screen time this week.

And I go, what? How is that even possible? Right? Absolutely. I have time. And I love something you said, and it reminded me of a reading we often do either at the beginning or the ending of our SAL meetings out of the White Book from pages 204 and 205 of The Solution. And I'm just going to read this. It's the very last paragraph of it. We began practicing a positive sobriety, taking the actions of love to improve our relations with others.

We were learning how to give And the measure we gave was the measure we got back. And I think that's where I'm going to stop right there. Talk to me a little bit about your experience with that concept.

Chris S.: I mean, for me, what highlights this is as soon as I got into recovery and started diving deeply in, I realized that the measure of time that I spent with my 5 children was not where I wanted it to be. I had prioritized other things, and as I dove deeper into What am I giving to my family, to my children, to my wife? And as I took a look at that, there was so much more that I wanted to give.

And I realized that there were so many areas of things that just weren't of value that I was spending time doing. And I wanted more meaningful relationships. And this addiction took so much of my emotional ability and capacity to connect and engage with others. That it was really eye-opening and apparent when I started to make those connections and started making those efforts. One, how much others in my life really wanted to be a part of my life and that reciprocity of wanting to be involved with one another, but then just how rewarding and how fruitful that was.

And that applied in my family. I wanted to carry that on with others. And so, Bled into my social circle, bled into my SAO brothers. It bled into so many elements of my life that getting to know people and spend time with people and what they're going through is the meaningful portion of life. And anytime I'm with others learning about or understanding or communicating or interacting with them is very valuable time to me. Yeah.

Justin B.: And I think that kind of goes right into the final phrase of the 12th step, and to carry these principles in all aspects of our lives. Talk to me about all aspects of our lives a little bit more.

Chris S.: I think ultimately, the 12 steps are the greatest foundation for the best way to live life, a healthy, valuable life. And I see so many times in business meetings at work, or with customers, or with my children, or with my wife, At church, in the community, at the grocery store. I noticed that sometimes I'll work some of these steps with others and it's just little things. People who are in need, there are needs around us everywhere. And working a little bit of the steps of what can I do to put myself in where God would have me to be to help facilitate that person.

And whether it's someone who's dealing with a child who's throwing a tantrum at the grocery store, I've got 5 kids. I've been through that. I can do a little something to help someone else to make their day better. And ultimately what has helped me is now that I'm comfortable with myself having worked the 12 steps, I have a different countenance and I see people differently and I see the myriad of needs all around me all the time. And so for me, it's what can I do to help someone around me today be better as a result of Me interacting and crossing their path and taking a little bit of time to do something that would be of service or support or help for them.

Justin B.: Before we start wrapping this up, Chris, is there anything else on Step 12 that you feel to share that we may have not addressed yet?

Chris S.: I think the key is just do it. Go out and work Step 12. Go reach out to others, find someone in need, and it doesn't even have to be a formal Step 12. Do something informal to put yourself in a situation to bless someone's life and make their life better and have that spiritual awakening. Let God speak to you and then go act and go do whatever that might be to carry a message. And that could be a message of happiness, of joy, of enlightenment, of gratitude, whatever it might be.

Carry some small nugget of positive, cheerful message to someone else to brighten their day.

Justin B.: Beautiful. I'm going to bring a passage of scripture in here. When Jesus said to Peter, when you are converted, strengthen your brothers. And I think that's what this is all about. When I have that spiritual awakening, get out there and do something about it. Share it with others. Any other thoughts on that?

Chris S.: That's a beautiful scripture. Beautiful quote. Beautiful reminder.

Justin B.: All right. So as we close this up, it's tradition that I ask these couple of questions at the end of it. And I think it's a powerful way to continue to carry this message. So Chris, for someone out there who may be just grasping and realizing, man, maybe this is a little bit more than a little problem that I have in my life, maybe I need to come into the rooms. What message do you have for that newcomer?

And what message do you have for somebody that's been around for years and years?

Chris S.: I think the promise is real. Work it. When you work the program, it works. And if it's not working, find what's not working for you and make some tweaks and make some adjustments. And I found for myself, there were areas all throughout my 12-step journey that there were some character defects or some nuggets that I wanted to continue to hold onto and not let go of. And in that process, it stunted my growth. It stunted my recovery.

It stunted my journey. And that's okay. You can carry some of those rocks and your boulders with you in this journey, but what one do you want to lay down today to try and improve and work on? And you can work on the rest of the bag of rocks later, but just focus on which one do I want to try and carry with me today? And whether you're just coming to SAL or whether you've been here for a long time, there is some rock ailment or character defect that could be improved or worked upon.

And don't try and take them all down because it's too overwhelming. Focus on one and put some energy, effort, and resource into finding a sponsor that can help you overcome that one. And work it and get after it and keep progressing.

Justin B.: Beautiful. Thank you, Chris. Man, I don't know of any other way to close this up other than do our final phrase that we say at the end of each of the meetings. If you want to join me in that, that keep coming back phrase, keep coming back. It works when I work it.

Chris S.: It works when you work it.

Justin B.: So work it. Work it. Your words are worth it.

Narrator: Thanks for joining us. We invite you to subscribe to this podcast so that you don't miss new episodes. And while you're at it, will you please leave us a 5-star rating and review to help us spread the good news that healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma is possible? We invite individuals who are struggling to join our virtual or in-person trauma-sensitive 12-step meetings. Meeting times and locations can be found at sal12step.org. You can find quality education at salifeline.org, and we hope that you will follow us on Instagram and Facebook.

SA Lifeline is a 501 nonprofit organization, and we welcome donations. SA Lifeline. Come heal with us.