2023 S.A. Lifeline Conference Q&A Panel – Part 2

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.

Tara McCausland: Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery Podcast. This is Tara McCausland, and for this Q&A episode, we will be sharing the second portion of the Q&A panel that we held during our 2023 SA Lifeline Conference, which was just a couple of weeks ago. This panel included speakers from our conference, members of the SA Lifeline team, as well as leadership from our SAL 12-step program. If you're interested in learning more about how to access the full conference, stay tuned.

We will let you know in later episodes how to do that. Now onto our Q&A panel. Question, what are some effective methods you use, therapists, you use with your clients to help them process difficult emotions?

Speaker 4: If you guys were able to watch Todd Olson's talk, he talked about the nervous system and kind of the ebbs and flows of our nervous system and being able to identify, pay attention to going into the sympathetic fight or flight or the dorsal vagal shutdown freeze. That's been game-changing for me in my life and my marriage and many of my clients and just being able to notice that something's off, that we have a shift? And then again, what tools, what regulation do I need to do to take care of that?

2 tools that I always recommend that my clients need in their recovery is under mindfulness. It's— they have to be aware of what's going on. So it has to be front and center. They have to notice it because too often we just numb out or hide. So awareness is key. And then the second one is intention. We have to be intentional about how we're going about it. So Todd Olson also talked about the 4 Rs. So we have to recognize that we shift in our nervous system.

We have to respect that because, again, sometimes we shame ourselves that I'm shut down or taken out or that I'm angry. But again, our emotions are just there to tell us something. So the idea of emotions is they're OK. They're not bad. Let's just notice kind of what they're— why they're coming up. And then the 3rd R is regulation. So, if we don't do the first 2 Rs, my argument is the way we regulate is going to be autopilot, numbed out, probably more addictive type behavior, relapsing for the addict and then for the betrayed, it's usually more about control.

I need to control things more to feel safe or to feel better. So, if we can recognize and respect, we can do better healthy regulation and those are skills that you learn through Therapy. And then the fourth one is restory. Hey, I can do things differently. I don't have to just continue in this loop of a 2-week cycle or a 2-month cycle or whatever it may be, but I can actually shift things and have lasting recovery, lasting sobriety.

And so, those are the ways that I would start is just the awareness and intention, being mindful of that. And then, yeah, different modalities that you can pick up. from your therapist.

Speaker 5: Amen. Josh kind of talked about everything that I would talk about. The healing work looks very similar, whether you're the addict or the betrayed, it is very similar. Often our unwanted behaviors, whatever they are, come from not knowing how to process, not knowing how to function in a healthy way. And so starting with that, nervous system self-care is one of the strongest foundations that we do in the work. And it's interesting how it's such a building block to dealing with other things, dealing with relapses, dealing with control issues.

You know, it's so important to take care of your nervous system. It's the cutting edge of science right now. And this is what we all need to do. But that's not what we're taught in society. In society, it's just like, Just stuff it. You know, we're just gonna stuff it. Everything's fine. We're not gonna talk about it. Nobody look at each other. Nobody. But we know that as we take care of ourselves and as we speak and we share and we receive support, that's where healing happens.

I'm a big believer that healing is possible for anyone in any situation. And so just start. getting that nervous system going. And I— the points that Josh made are exactly what I would have said. So.

Speaker 6: I agree with everything that's been said. I oftentimes, though, will sit with clients who will tell me that they're allergic to emotions. Anyone have that issue? Uh, and so the reality is, is that they've learned how to function really well, and they almost wear it as a badge of honor that, that doesn't interfere with how they, how they do life. And so we'll talk about, as a coach, as a— with me as a coach versus a clinician, we talk about things that they can do to begin implementing and essentially removing some level of fear around their emotions.

We often avoid them 'cause we can't control them. So we start talking about that. Some tactical things that we do, I have some clients who I've had them install an app on their phone that tracks their emotions through the day. So it forces them to do a self-check-in. Yeah. to actually figure out what they're feeling. It also expands their emotional vocabulary. All of a sudden, they're like, I saw this word, and it made a lot of sense to me.

And it wasn't just mad. It was more than mad. And we're so proud of them. So I would say that. And the thing we say oftentimes is that emotions are like the dashboard of your car. So those lights go off, those particular emotions are surfacing, because they're trying to tell you that something else is not okay. And I'm just as guilty as the rest of you of ignoring those lights for a long time, right? And so if we can begin to understand that they actually have purpose, and it's a deeper level of purpose, I think it helps us get to a place of appreciating them and embracing them a little quicker.

But—

Tara McCausland: Question: How can you navigate being in recovery addict side while being a nurse or in the medical field where you are subject to seeing undress patience, and show up for your wife as a man showing up in his recovery.

Speaker 5: One of the keys to healing is getting objectification out of your life, seeing people as human beings rather than just bodies. My husband is a recovering addict, and he, he's a clinician. He works with people's bodies, and that's something that he had to navigate. And he said the biggest thing that helped him was to look at people in their eyes. and remember that they are children of God. And that made a huge difference for him. Sorry, I'm getting emotional.

This is something that I had to navigate as a spouse, is how can he go to work all day and be exposed to this and have that shift? Can he still do that? And as he worked his recovery, as he lived in recovery, that's what made all the difference, when he looked at people and remembered how precious each person was. And it takes time, and it is a shift. I think for me, I had a lot of fear.

I had a lot of fear. I thought, oh no, does he need to change his job? Does he need to do all those other things? And I can't tell you what you guys need to do, but as he worked his recovery hard, he was able to shift emotionally and mentally, spiritually, in all those ways. So he can work with people, not people's bodies. And that made a huge difference for him. So.

Tara McCausland: Thank you for taking that one. I thought that's a unique question. Question: What do I need to do to help my very young children heal from the trauma they've experienced growing up in the unhealthy attempts to heal from the betrayal trauma and addiction?

Speaker 2: For me, something I've been practicing, but I'm practicing with you, so I haven't arrived, with some very traumatized children over some Hard things is really just sitting with them in pain without judgment. They get to tell me exactly how they feel, why they feel it, and for me to just sit there with them, hold it, relate back, make sure that there's no shame in our conversation and that there's a lot of love has seemed to brought a lot of healing.

Speaker 6: Some other things I would add to that is You have to tell them a story, because if you don't, they'll make up a story. And kids are narcissists. They're gonna make it about them. And so I encourage you to give them a story. I did this myself in my own parents' divorce. I was convinced up until I was probably about 13 years old that they divorced because I was too expensive. I have no idea where that story came from other than I just made it up.

It had nothing to do with me being expensive as a kid. But I kept saying that all the time. Well, it's expensive to have kids. And so they couldn't— I don't know, that was my story. But the truth is, is that kids will make up the story. And typically, it's about them. And it's just— that's natural development for them. They should be focused on themselves. But the other thing I did in one particular season that I'll just add this as another tangible thing, I had kids ranging from early middle school down.

And as we were navigating some really tough seasons, I offered my kids to contact a safe adult for them. And so I said, if you have anybody that's another safe adult in your life, that you want them to know what's going on, I will reach out to them and tell them the story, and then let them know that they are allowed to talk to you about anything. And so what I was trying to do was expand their safe community versus them feeling like, well, I can't talk about it with my peers, And I don't know who— what adult I can do, because oftentimes kids will go into the place of trying to protect, right, the family.

There's certain personality types that way. And so one daughter chose a small group leader, another daughter chose her English teacher, another child chose their tutor. And I informed all those people that we had a lot of upheaval going on in our story, in an effort for them to be able to openly talk about it.

Tara McCausland: Okay, we'll take this. Last question. And then again, if your questions were not answered, we have a podcast, we have blogs or a blog post that we can address these in. So we will get these answered. So we will let you know after the fact how we're going to respond to unanswered questions. But question. Who do you allow into your recovery and how do you determine if you as well as they are ready to permit in?

Does that question make sense? To be like welcomed into your recovery journey?

Speaker 8: I'm gonna answer this because it's fresh for me. There are 2 kinds of people I've had in my recovery, those who are directly impacted from it, who need to work on the healing and need to have the story told so that they can work with me on it. And there are people who in my groups need to hear my story and be a part of it so that they can get healing from my story. I've also run into people in that second category who are outside the groups, some friends from high school who I reconnected with and said, my marriage is falling apart, I'm having a terrible time, and here's why.

And I go, okay, I know exactly where you need to be right now, right? And that, you know, they come into SAL and they're, they're so happy we talked about it. But the reality is that a lot of the time my higher power guides who's allowed in and who's not. And I have to be keenly aware of that. I work my Step 10 and 11 to inform my Step 12. So that's—

Speaker 2: I'll add too, if that's okay. I like to think of this question kind of like a gate, because some people really, I mean, we can overshare easily, or for what their capacity is, you know. So I like to share a little. And if that was handled well, open the gate a little more, share a little more. And if it wasn't, close the gate a little more. And that doesn't mean that they're out of my life or anything like that.

It just means maybe they aren't at a place where they can hold that for me right then. And that's okay because there are other people who can, and finding them is really critical. So if I were to go back in my, my very early recovery, I would say this to myself. Find your people, Jenny. It is worth it. It is worth it. And they are out there. I mean, it's hard to find them. You know, we've been talking about community.

It's like, well, how? Well, they are there. I promise they're there. But finding them can be a battle. And that's okay because you're worth the space and time and effort and resources to find them.

Speaker 9: That's a really challenging question I believe that all face. Who should I bring into my circle and when should I bring them in my circle? And the most immediate and important people in my circle is my wife and my children. And 18 years ago, there was history with my story. And then there were going to be serious consequences when my story was— when I decided to get honest. There would be consequences There could potentially be consequences in my job.

There were going to be consequences in my marriage. There were going to be consequences that continued in, in a number of different ways if I wanted to work recovery. People would know that I wasn't at home on Tuesday night because I was in Murray on Tuesday night. So am I going to lie to certain people that I'm in Murray on Tuesday night? Yeah. doing knitting or a chess club? No. No. So there are certain people that have to know, and so that they don't tell themselves stories about where is Stephen and what's he doing.

But that— and that circle, I have to be willing to put myself out there a bit because knowing that there are— that each person that I tell will have to process this, starting with my wife. How difficult was it for her to process the story? How difficult was it for my ecclesiastical leaders to process the story? How difficult was it for my children to process the story? How difficult was it for— you know, the list goes on.

But I must say that when there are going to be— when it's going to be obvious that you're someplace unusual, anything that is less than the truth will just hurt other people. So for me, I had to be very aware of who was paying attention to me. And they had to be aware. Not everyone had to know the depth of the story that my wife knew or that my ecclesiastical leaders knew. But they needed to know enough that they didn't have to second-guess, where is Stephen?

Speaker 7: As far as telling your story, it was so good with Daniel Weiss, tell your story, right? But as the betrayed, I have to be careful because my story hinges on my addicted spouse's story. So whenever I'm telling a story now, I make sure that I am asking Andrew, is it okay if I share? 'Cause I'm a New Yorker, born and raised New Yorker. My story is on my sleeve. You know everything about me in 5 minutes after meeting me.

It's like— but the most important thing I've realized through this journey is it's, it's like Brené Brown says, it's a vault, right? My life is a vault. And people that tell me their stories, it's not my place to repeat that story because it's their story. And I've loved learning that concept because to me, especially when it comes to Andrew and the life that we've led, I'm now able to tell my story. And a lot of it is because Andrew has told his.

And I'm so grateful for that and the ability now to be able to share the story so we can touch people. Thank you.

Speaker 10: I'm just gonna add something really quick. So I think there's 2 different phases of this question. Early on in recovery, if I had asked my husband if I could share my story, even if it was something that I felt like I should do for my own healing, he probably would have said no. Like, no, you may not. And I would have stuffed that need that I had to reach out to someone for support. Now that my husband is working recovery, he has, you know, made a lot of changes and that kind of stuff, I can trust that a little more.

But I would say to just be careful. If you feel like, as a betrayed spouse, if you feel like what you need for your recovery is to share your story with someone, and maybe it ends up being a mistake and they blow it up in your face. You still were following and trying to do what you felt like you needed to do. And sometimes an addicted spouse is not in a place to be okay with that, but that might still be what you need to do.

Speaker 11: Tara, really quick, um, can I be like the politicians and answer the question I wish was asked? So, this conference has been really beautiful. It's my first time here. I believe it is relevant to everyone in Utah, literally. And yet there are 150 people in the room. So, I just want to share as my own conviction that one day this work is going to fill the earth. Many Christians believe that there's going to be 1,000 years of peace.

one day. And my belief is when the Lord shows up, he's not just going to suddenly take all the problems away. We're going to need 1,000 years to heal as a human family for what we did to each other. There's just so much. And I've also been so touched by the stories of these men and others I'm reading that we really can find it. There is such a thing as lasting healing and freedom. And it's different than just the sort of coping and getting by.

So I'm inspired by this group. This is a little taste of the future.

Tara McCausland: Thank you. Well, let's hear it for our Q&A panel. They did a phenomenal job.

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