Why Choosing Rigorous Honesty is Important as a Betrayed Partner w/ Rachelle S

Rachelle S: Being honest with God frees me to be more honest with myself. And if he can hold it and still love me, then maybe my husband can too. Maybe other people in my life can too. I can put God in his proper place by surrendering things to his care that I can't fix.

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.

Jonathan L.: Welcome to Pathway to Recovery Podcast. I'm Jonathan L., and I am a grateful addict living in recovery. I found the program and I'm working it, and I am in the rooms of recovery myself. And I am super privileged today to be sitting down with Rochelle. who is gonna give us some background about herself. She's gonna help us understand her journey as well as what she's doing now with SAA Lifeline. Let's kick this off.

Rachelle S: So my name's Rochelle. I have been in the rooms of recovery for 4 and a half years. I've been married for 17, but I knew before we got married a little bit about what was going on. I mean, he didn't tell me the full truth, but he did kind of let me know if there was pornography use going on. And so in my mind, it was interesting when I heard about that. I heard God speak to me, you know what, this is good because this is going to bring him to me.

And so I just kind of really hung onto that throughout this whole journey. We got married and we had kids. After our 5th kid was 3 years old, I just felt there was something else Right when I had my 5th was when I hit my rock bottom. And then 3 years later, my husband had hit his rock bottom and finally had told me through charcoal disclosure about what was happening. We were married 12 years at the time, and it was difficult, but when he told me what was going on, I said, okay, I don't care what you do.

I just need help. And so I Googled support group for women whose husbands have a pornography addiction, and SAL popped up. And so I signed up, I did their email, and I was at an in-person group that week. SAL has been such a gift to me in this whole journey of healing. The 12 steps has really helped me understand my higher power in a way that I know I wouldn't have understood otherwise. And I am just so grateful for this program.

And even though parts of this is painful, I don't regret anything that's happened to me here. So it's a little bit about my story. I love SAL. It's been a blessing and it's been very beautiful to be part of.

Jonathan L.: That's awesome to hear about your story and how you got here. Now, I had heard that you were helping out with the program to some degree. I mean, what's your—

Rachelle S: Yes. Yes. One of the first things I did, I became a sponsor earlier on. I love giving back, but then I'm also part of the service council. We help with conferences. My role's to help with running meetings and making sure that Key 3's running smoothly and the meetings are staying safe and doing trainings monthly to help with that. And then I also am an ambassador for SA Lifeline as well. And so I love to incorporate that part of being an ambassador in my work and sharing the message to so many people who can really use this tool of healing.

Jonathan L.: Awesome. And sorry, for some context, some people might actually know, but what does an ambassador do for SA Lifeline?

Rachelle S: One of our main motivations is to really help spread the good news that healing is possible from betrayal trauma and sex addiction. And so by helping therapists know that there's tools out there, there's also continuing education you can receive as a therapist. Really, we're trying to help support therapists in their journey of helping their clients working through betrayal trauma and sex addiction. And also clergy, they tend to be first responders in this situation. And so knowing how to be sensitive to the betrayed, but also to the addict.

Yeah.

Jonathan L.: The program is building in a really cool way where the resources are all connecting, which I love this ambassador program, cuz we're bringing together all the sources people go to to find healing. and giving them that training, that outreach, right? So cool. Like such a cool program that you're a part of. And yeah, so we talked about your story a little bit, but how long has it been since you came into the recovery rooms to now doing this?

Rachelle S: Yeah, so I found out the end of February 27th, 2022. Those dates you just don't forget. So, so yeah, this February it'll be 5 years.

Jonathan L.: 5 years. See, and here's the thing is that I, and I'll just this really quickly. I don't like to do a lot of monologuing, but I will say, how cool is that? That in 5 years you can go from, I'm at my rock bottom, I'm sorting through some really difficult stuff for me, to I'm going to build a community and help people and help save other lives. First off, applaud you. But second of all, this, that's what this program is.

It's so cool to see people like you.

Rachelle S: Thank you. It's beautiful. I love, love it.

Jonathan L.: I picked you for a specific topic today. And your story really lines up with a lot of this. You talked about trickle disclosures. You talked about just dealing with not whole truths. And so the topic today that we're focusing on is a piece of the recovery puzzle. It's rigorous honesty. And I've got a few questions for you. I wanna hear your perspective as a betrayed partner. And so the first one I wanna look at is facing raw truth.

Like when the truth comes out, for many betrayed partners, that rigorous honesty starts with no longer minimizing what happened. So I'm taking it kind of a different perspective cuz From the addict side, we would come out and say, okay, it's getting the whole package together and really preparing to maybe do a guided disclosure with a therapist. But in the case of the betrayed partners, we're looking at no longer minimizing things that happened. You're not covering for the addict or living in denial.

I mean, what helped you get to a place where you felt like you could face the whole truth of what was going on?

Rachelle S: I lived in denial. For so long, I look back and I see there were so many red flags. And the one thing that actually got me onto this journey of truth was when an outside source, my mother-in-law, actually pointed out there is something else occupying his brain. And once I heard that, God showed me all of these red flags. My husband had just like this dark cloud, his countenance, and I didn't even know how to put words to it then because of how little I knew about this, but he was in so much shame.

His countenance looks so heavy. And so God showing me those things really helped me know, okay, there is actually a bigger problem here than what I have dismissed for years. And being honest with that— and I gotta tell you, when I came into my first meeting, I saw women that were my mom's age, and right then I came to a place of acceptance of this is my life and I'm going to be here until I'm my mom's age, and that was a bigger pill for me, but that was getting out of this space of denial.

And honestly, I lived in fear of being in denial for years. And I think a lot of betrayed women can relate because it was years. Yeah. And denial is actually something that protected me really from facing any pain. And so it makes sense that I denied for so long because I was just trying to protect myself. But once I came to the reality of what was happening, then truth could be restored and honesty can be The foundation of our newfound relationship because we just broke everything down.

And that can be like our basic foundation of connection and having a stronger relationship than we've ever had. And honestly, my denial thought that we had a really good marriage, that we had a pretty good relationship. We're on the same page for a lot of things, but once all of that came shattering down, then, and honesty broke free, we were able to come back together and have beautiful connecting conversations through rigorous honesty. And that takes a lot of time to get to that point and practicing in that.

Jonathan L.: Just to highlight a few things, you talked about there being a good relationship from the perspective of the denial, right? And in reality, there probably were things that were good or enjoyable in the relationship, but that underlying layer, and I experienced this myself, you can feel there's like a rot to it. It's fallen apart because there's a lack of connection in some of the deepest ways. And so, you know, you have to drop dysfunction and part of that means maybe losing some of what you thought was functioning to get there.

And so I love how you open that perspective up. Addiction and dysfunction, they work together when it's dark and there's no honesty or truth, right? There are masks we put on, right? There's a disguise, a facade, but like you kind of touched on this already, but did you have specific facades or masks you had to drop in order to open up that dialogue?

Rachelle S: Yes. I had to be honest with myself in realizing that I was not being honest. Which is weird, right? Because sometimes we think, oh, well, it's the addict that's always dishonest. No, there was part of me that was being very dishonest in efforts to control my reality, right? So my step 4, I am a people pleaser and I would say yes to a lot of things even when I didn't want to. And that was even like what I wanted for dinner or just like small, simple things.

But I did it to appease my husband because I couldn't handle and hold any shame or pain or outbursts or anything that he would have. And honestly, he does not have big outbursts. It's more of like internal. So I don't want him to stonewall or to shut down, but I know there's like spectrums of that, right? And, but to try to control his mood. I would then be dishonest with my true feelings and how I really felt, or we'd even stuff feelings down.

So I couldn't face my pain with where I'm at, because if I were to share with him my pain, I don't want him to go into shame or to shut down because that's what would happen. I think a part of getting to a space of Being rigorously honest and even radical honesty. There's like, I feel like there's even a difference in the two, but getting to that space, I have to learn how to face pain and being willing to see myself as it is and to hold space for my husband as he is as well.

Even, and I have no control over. who he is and what he does. But if I want an honest and connecting relationship, then we both need to learn how to hold space for each other within the vulnerability of being completely honest. And being completely honest is very vulnerable. Being truthful is painful.

Jonathan L.: When we are in meetings, we have these discussions where we say, yeah, we need to be honest. And here's how I struggled with it this week, but In reality, it's also good to just talk about, it's hard. That space is very difficult. And I kind of want to talk about this because even in recovery and you've gone, you know, years along the way, there are tendencies or there's a push toward wanting to soften reality as we get further along or, you know, looking back.

And while we can be honest about the healing that we've experienced, when we talk about these behaviors, both in dysfunction, but also in addiction, Mm-hmm. It's important not to soften reality. So what I wanted to ask you in that line of thinking is, as you look back, and I don't know how often you maybe experienced it, but I know that it is something that does often occur, is minimizing or trying to soften these things, trying to explain away maybe certain behaviors, maybe our own, but also our partners, right?

How do you make that step when it's scary?

Rachelle S: So one thing you mentioned, minimizing. So I did minimize a lot in effort to protect my husband. And I had to be honest with myself. Okay, why am I protecting my husband? And it actually all came to be about me. I don't wanna feel shame in the fact that I married an addict, or I don't want people to feel like my husband is whatever judgment they lay, and then I'm judged for that too. Right? And so.

It all came to be about me facing my pain and my reality and what was the dysfunction in my reality, right? Because I can't really control people's judgment, but I can feel comfortable in my own skin and lining up with my values, with my higher power, and being rigorously honest. Um, the steps that it took For me to stop minimizing, I had to gain more confidence in who I was. I think it all started with awareness and who I was and what I wanted to then be honest with myself regarding my needs and emotions, which is part of my top lines is to be trade.

To be honest with myself regarding my needs and emotions. Where my life was so turned upside down, I didn't understand my reality. I didn't understand what my relationships were like with my husband, with really anybody because of all of this dysfunction that happened. As I became acutely aware and what was happening to my husband, but then also what was happening to me. Then I could be more honest with how this is really feeling. I have a fear of, and this is a conversation I would have with my husband.

The reason why I responded that way is because I am feeling a lot of fear of losing you, or I am feeling fear of being rejected. By you. And so that is why I responded the way that I did. And it's not excusable, but let me just be honest with what's really happening with me and the root of what's going on and why I'm choosing to not give whole truths because I have a fear of being rejected by you.

Right. And so I think that's part of radical honesty is about getting to the root of it. But rigorous honesty is basically a practice of being— it says in the Blue Book, practice of being completely truthful and transparent in all aspects of one's life without omission or distortion, even when it's uncomfortable or difficult. And I think that's what's really hard on both sides. Being rigorously honest is, it's uncomfortable and difficult. But when I can get to the root of where my emotions are stemming from, I have a fear of losing my husband to addiction.

And hearing that can be very connecting. Yeah. Like if my husband hearing how I'm really feeling can be a very connecting experience and he could be feeling the exact same way. I have a fear of you leaving me. Well, that's common ground we both have and that we can connect on and build from there. And so being rigorously honest can connect us to a more like deeper relationship than when there wasn't, because it was all rotted.

Like you said, I liked how you said that.

Jonathan L.: I want to dissect some of the stuff you said, because I think so much of it was packed with good information. Going back to the very beginning of it, which was that one of the things that you have to be honest about is the fact that you are valuable and your feelings are valuable and you are worthwhile, right? And sometimes we can even dismiss that fact. And that is The first problem, probably we need to address this, which is why the first step is recognizing that there is a higher power and moving into it.

And that higher power cares about me, wants to help me and can, right? Yes.

Speaker 4: Hey, a quick pause. Thank you so much for joining us on Pathway to Recovery Podcast. I know that if you're listening to this today, recovery and healing matter to you. Take that commitment a step further at the SA Lifeline Virtual Conference coming up November 13th and 14th. You'll learn from top experts in sexual addiction recovery, betrayal trauma, and healing marriages and families. You'll also connect with others who understand the journey and importantly set aside intentional time to focus on your own healing.

We have to understand that information alone doesn't change us. Change comes as we apply what we learn with intention. This conference offers practical tools, meaningful connection, and opportunities to consider your next steps and put them into action. Scholarships are available, and if you can't attend live, you'll have access to conference recordings through the end of the year. So get intentional with your recovery. Join us November 13th and 14th. You can register at salifeline.org. Come heal with us.

Jonathan L.: And then everything cascades from there. Like, I can be more honest when I recognize that there is a love or a care for me That is given from someone or something that can't be taken away. And then you actually gave a great example of how communication might happen between spouses and their own separate sides of it to find common ground. Can I ask you also, how might you do this with— and honesty doesn't— I mean, obviously it should live within the spousal relationship, but we've got other relationships too, like sponsors, sponsees, support people.

How would you address some of those other outside the— Marital relationship, how would you do that in the recovery programs? What with other people?

Rachelle S: I think with other people learning, well, it all comes down to learning about what's okay and what's not okay with me. And then having the certain boundaries with that too. So in our readings for the betrayed, whenever we lose serenity, we pause, breathe, practice self-care, be honest with their needs and emotions. And then eventually we do the surrender process to then hold and maintain healthy boundaries and then surrender the outcome of that. So if there's dysfunction happening within my other relationships, I can pause and step back and think, okay, uh, how is this honestly affecting me?

What is happening with me? Because sometimes there are things that a sponsee could say or a sponsor can say to me that are triggering for me, right? Mm-hmm. And I need to be honest with myself in why is that triggering to me? I think that's important to know that sometimes we say things that's hard to hear. I came back from the women's workshop. It was beautiful. So good. It's hard to hear things like similar to my story and it just didn't work out.

And so I was like, And then I get into this space of, oh my gosh, is that going to be my story? Because they went through that way. Is that going to be mine? Am I being lied to this whole entire time? Because I was in denial for so long. Am I still in denial? Okay, and being honest with myself, okay, why am I feeling that way? Of course I'm going to feel that way because I was in denial for so long.

But let me get present with my body. And let me think, okay, in reality today, where am I at today? What parts of this am I being honest with, and what part is protecting me? What can I be radically and rigorously honest about to help me know when I need to work my step four or step ten to see what is triggering to. know what kind of boundaries I need to set for when I can be honest with other people.

Jonathan L.: This is kind of what I thought about. I heard that approximately 20% of American vehicle owners drive with the check engine light on permanently. They just have that light on, right? And as you were talking about this and you kept going back to this idea, which I think is so powerful in all of our relationships, it's that that light comes on. People will set that light off sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes it goes off and we don't know why.

And the person maybe didn't even do anything, but the light went off, that emotion flares. And I love how you talked about checking in with yourself and checking in with your body and saying like, that emotion flared. Why? Like what in me flared the emotion? Because quite literally no one can reach down your throat and like turn, flick the switch for your emotions. It's gotta be in you. And I love how you mentioned too, this, you talked about the diagnosis of it.

Saying, well, do I need to work my step forward? I'm thinking, do I need to run a step 10 inventory on myself right now and check in? And what's beautiful about the way you describe this system is that you have feelings and they're worthwhile, kind of like we talked about, and they need to be checked in and they need to be managed and everything has to be based on truth. So you did discuss another point that I want to dig in on a little bit, if you'll indulge me.

And it's this. That living in denial for so long, honestly, from the addict side, living in addiction so long, it's sometimes hard to trust ourselves. And I wish I could say I do, but you know, years in recovery, I still have times where I'm like, that's not going to be safe, or that's not going to be okay. And even in denial, right? You're saying, well, am I? And you do that good check-in, but let's talk about this.

So when fear and survival mode kick in, how do you tell the difference between a real trauma response that needs addressing, or just like an old pattern that doesn't serve your healing anymore? How do you, what do you do to pull that apart?

Rachelle S: I'm going to share an experience that I had recently that helped, that was part of this. And then it ended up being a very connecting experience. So hang in there because it can be triggering at the first. It's Halloween. Our kids, we went to Spirit of Halloween because they wanted to pick out some costumes. That's very triggering. to go into Spirit of Halloween for a number of reasons for me. One, the scary, yucky, gross costumes, the jump scares, I'm not a big fan of.

Don't really care for those. And then also there's this whole section that's not very like modest costumes. So that's triggering to be in that space with my husband. And so I had this experience. We Went in and my husband and I were separated for 2 minutes, not even that. And I went almost into this panic of, oh my gosh, where is my husband? Where is he going? Is he lusting? So much that I blurted out my husband's name.

And in this whole store, like loud, it wasn't even, it was like a loud, like calling my kids across the park, like loud. And that I feel like is, was trauma response. And I had to actually pause and think because I had this tug of war inside of me of, oh my gosh, am I in denial or am I living recovery? What's going on with me? I cannot believe I just let myself walk into this. Like, what was I thinking?

And then I had to pause and breathe and be like, no, I trust my husband. That he knows and that he has a plan. He has provided a lot of trust for me in the past years. This wasn't just in the past 6 months. This was like years in providing trust. And he wouldn't walk into this if he knew he wouldn't have tools to work with this. And we had our kids with us and it was like a family thing, right?

So. Then I find him and he was like, oh, look, this is what I found. You know, this light and stuff that's going to cause problems if you can't do flashy lights. For pillow talk that night, I had to be honest with him. And I tell him, I had a lot of fear hit me when we were at the store together. And I don't know if you heard me yell your name, but that was a trauma response.

And I just need to know from you if you lusted while we were there. And he was like, I appreciate you asking. I actually had a plan before. And that was another thing too. I, part of my bottom lines is to not mother my husband. And so, and to not like obsessively just say, okay, well, we're going to go because I've actually tried this and I have done this. I was like, okay, well, we're going to Walmart and it's the middle of July and it's 100 degrees.

What plan of action do you have? You know, like there's going to be people not being dressed right. Like what's your action plan before we even go in there? Right. And so I've been on that side of the spectrum and now I'm like, okay, I, it's not healthy for me and for him to like go into that. Anyway, when he offered me, he told me what his plan was and was really honest with what he was thinking beforehand, and he already knew ahead of time that was really triggering.

And so he shared with me this plan and then told me that he was sober. So I could feel my body just relax and I could just be honest with him in saying, I appreciate you having a plan for yourself, but I I want you to see me and that it can be triggering for me to be in that space with you. And for you to provide a plan for me ahead of time shows that you see me, that you care about me, and that you want to offer protection for me in this space.

He can't control my trauma and my triggers. But he can offer protection from them in a way. Light bulbs turned on because my husband wants to protect me. He wants to look out for me and he wants to provide emotional security for me. That was like, yeah, I, light bulbs turned on where he's like, yeah, I want to do that for you. And it just really helped. Calm my nervous system down enough to feel taken care of so that I can then be free to enjoy this experience with the kids.

And not that it's his job for me to be emotionally stable. It's not. But by providing a plan of action that he's choosing to do for himself allows me to relax. Mm-hmm. And be more present and enjoy the experience. And so that ended up being connecting emotionally, even physically. It was just like, wow, like we were holding each other's hands afterwards like that. It just felt so good being in that space. But we had to be very rigorously honest to explain What we're feeling.

And he had to be willing to share if he did lust or not. Like, he had to be willing to share if he did act out in that way, or if he wasn't being in reality of his addiction either. Right? And so luckily he chose tools and he had a plan of action. But with him being rigorously honest with himself, it would provide a way for him to possibly see, yeah, I didn't do that. So that was my recent experience.

Jonathan L.: I love it. And thank you for sharing it. And let me just say really quickly, I love how you can show how far you and your husband have come in this program because you see a very healthy dynamic there, which is that both of you are honest and both of you are able to go through and process an event that happened, right? And this is something that I want to point out, that now you have 2 individuals are able to support one another in that way.

Right. And you mentioned how the mothering, the parenting aspect of it didn't help because it extends your need to control. It extends your work. And that's not a comfortable place to be. Right. When 2 individuals work this program of recovery, they actually become responsible for their own healing and recovery, and then become accountable to each other for that, to fight the same enemy. Right. Which is cool.

Rachelle S: Yes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And I did go, I mean, there was parts where I was like, okay, you have to be, you have to tell me everything that you're doing. When we go to Walmart and we have our check-ins, like, you have to tell me if you got a lust hit or if you like lusted at all. And I think I needed that complete honesty in everything for a minute so that I could see evidence of him being willing to be honest in everything that he did.

Right. Mm-hmm. But after a while, it was traumatizing for me so much that I couldn't go with him to Walmart anymore. Couldn't go with him to any stores. And I realized I had to be honest with myself and how is this really affecting me? Is this good for my recovery? Can I have stability hearing this every single night? And the answer was no. So. I had to learn to set boundaries about what it is that I needed from him and vice versa.

There's a reason why they don't share every grueling detail in a therapeutic full disclosure, right? And, but by being honest about the root of why he chose to do certain things, I expect that 100%. And he expects that of me. Why did I choose to fly off the handle and kick the dog? Well, because I'm emotionally not okay and I need to check in and reach out and pause, breathe, practice self-care, and reach out to my sponsor, another woman working in recovery, and surrender over things that I can't control and open my window of tolerance in that as well.

But being honest in that, I think, is a key part in getting to that space.

Jonathan L.: I love that you needed that honesty to help build the right boundaries that work for recovery for both of you, right? Without that rigorous honesty as the foundation, none of the systems you just described work at all. There has to be a coming together and understanding that, and really all relationships that matter, because you can't really form a meaningful relationship with someone based on Lies. But that brings up one other relationship and I'll make this maybe my last formal question on the topic.

I always have our standard questions at the end, but this one I want to ask is there is one other relationship and that's the relationship with your higher power. And we've touched on this a little bit, but have you pushed in the direction of that rigorous honesty with a higher power? And if so, how has that impacted your recovery journey?

Rachelle S: In step 5, we do a moral and searching inventory of ourselves. And step 5 is we admitted to God and to another person working in recovery the exact nature of our wrongs. So in that step 5 is when I had to be, and it says we didn't tell God something he didn't already know. Like we, he already knows all of the things that I'm being dishonest about. And so, but it's a matter, it's all about me. It's not even what my higher power needs.

It's what I need with my higher power. And I was told recently that practicing the 12 steps secures my attachment with a higher power. And so being able to be rigorously honest with the God of my understanding about how and why I choose to do these protective measures, because I am scared of pain. Pain of rejection is a huge one for me, which leads me into people pleasing. But being honest with God frees me to be more honest with myself.

And if he can hold it and still love me, then maybe my husband can do it too. Maybe other people in my life can do it too. God's given me the gift of discernment. As I've worked through my steps to discern who is worthy to hear my story or not, I can work through the pain of being honest because God has me and God has them. And I can let God be in his proper place in my children's lives, in my husband's life, and also in My life and my sponsee's life, any woman working in recovery, my neighbor's life.

I can put God in his proper place by surrendering over everything to his care that I can't fix.

Jonathan L.: Such a great perspective. Thank you so much for really tackling this, this rigorous honesty topic. I need to ask you, you have the mic now and a lot of people who are just starting recovery. This might even be their first time listening to the podcast. Let's direct it towards a betrayed partner, a spouse who's currently feeling this, I'm minimizing, I'm covering, I'm afraid to look at reality and I feel this wall here. What would you say to someone who's listening that needs to hear a message from you?

Rachelle S: Well, it makes total sense that you have been in denial for so long because the reality of your life is painful and it hurts. And so it makes sense that you minimized and that you skirted around, that you've tiptoed, that you've policed, that you've lied. All these things that have happened, it makes total sense because the reality of it is painful to face. But I know there is a higher power to hold you, to help you Work through the pain of facing the reality that you are now struck with.

And it's a process. It's worth it. The process of working through the pain is totally worth it. And God is going to be there for you in every aspect, in every space, in every moment. every day to help you work through how hard and difficult this is. I know he's done that for me. He can do that for you.

Jonathan L.: That was a beautiful message. And I hope that people take it to heart. The other group that I would hope you could speak to, I think people who have been in the program a bit realize this is kind of a lifelong thing. There are some people who are in the thick of it and have been for a few years and just maybe they're feeling stuck. Any thoughts for them? Because you've made significant progress in your relationships.

What would you say to someone who's feeling just stuck even after working the program for years now?

Rachelle S: Well, that's really nice. I am not above any of those women that have been in this for way longer than— I know that's not the point of that, but I know sometimes it can feel mundane or it can feel like I already know this, but there are women out there that need you, that need your experience, strength, and hope. To help them move forward. And it is through your own experience of how you have reached recovery or a sense of recovery that is going to bring just that one person to the light and the gift of recovery.

By you coming and being you and who you are, your own personal experience, no matter what it is, valuable. And other women need that. They need you in this program to give the strength, hope, and experience. And I hope you accept the invitation to continue to stay and give that gift to so many other women that crave it. And as you do that, I know your higher power will show up for you and give you what you need to sustain.

Because it's hard sometimes enduring. Our higher power doesn't take away the pain. He doesn't take it away, but he enables us to continue. It is through his grace and all the things that we gain from working the 12 steps to enable us to keep moving forward. And it's endurance. And it's enabling endurance that God gives us the strength to keep going. So it's hard. Keep going. You got this.

Jonathan L.: We have loved listening to your journey about your experience, your healing, your hope. So very grateful for all that you've shared today. I just want to say to those who are listening, please come join us on this pathway to recovery. We're grateful that we had you here this week. As a callout, we have a program that you can join if you are looking for more of a guided approach. Working the 12 steps can actually be kind of daunting.

It can feel daunting. That's why SAL 12 Step has created a daily curriculum that people can access to help work on these steps. So you can do 'em one day at a time. You can do one bite-sized piece at a time, and you can learn more by going to sal12step.org, or there will be a link in the show notes. Thank you so much, Rachelle, for being here today. Thank you for taking time to be with us.

Rachelle S: Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Narrator: Thanks for joining us. We invite you to subscribe to this podcast so that you don't miss new episodes. And while you're at it, will you please leave us a 5-star rating and review to help us spread the good news that healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma is possible? We invite individuals who are struggling to join our virtual or in-person trauma-sensitive 12-step meetings. Meeting times and locations can be found at sal12step.org. You can find quality education at salifeline.org, and we hope that you will follow us on Instagram and Facebook.

SA Lifeline is a 501 nonprofit organization, and we welcome donations. SA Lifeline. Come heal with us.