Post Discovery Triage Care: Establishing Safety & Stabilization for the Betrayed and Betrayer w/ Amanda Christenson

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.

Tara McCausland: Amanda Christensen is a licensed marriage and family therapist and has specialized in treating couples affected by compulsive sexual behaviors and betrayal for 10 years. She is the owner of Hope Therapy, a group practice with 17 therapists and multiple locations in Utah. She is a co-host of the podcast Not the Experts, which focuses on betrayal trauma resilience. She has presented at multiple conferences and workshops. Amanda is also an AAMFT approved supervisor for therapists in training and is currently an adjunct faculty member at Brigham Young University teaching practicum and sexual development and analysis for marriage and family therapy master's students.

Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery podcast. I am your host, Tara McCausland, and I'm so thrilled to have here with me My friend, can I call you my friend? Amanda Christensen. Thank you. Yeah, Amanda is one that I've been familiar with for a number of years, and I'm just so grateful for what you're doing in the, in this field of sexual addiction and betrayal trauma. But as we, as we start off, we're going to be addressing what do we do next after there's been discovery?

And this is just like triage, right? Like the basic things that we need to get in place so we can establish some safety and stabilization. But before we jump into that, I know you have your own experience, your own personal story associated with this. Would you share a little bit about that, if you would be willing? Yeah.

Amanda Christensen: So I, I mean, this is why I'm passionate about it. So I have a funny story. It's not funny, but it's Ironic. I got my master's 10 years ago. I graduated 10 years ago with my master's degree in marriage and family therapy. And my first job was under someone who specialized in sexual addiction and betrayal trauma. And so I learned that, but I, I mean, I wasn't very passionate about it. And then as I started to really kind of specialize in that, I started to really enjoy that clientele.

And I felt like, this is, this is really good. I know where I'm going. It just kind of clicked with me. But I was also very glad that it didn't affect me personally. Mm-hmm. So then I got licensed and all that, and then I was in private practice and, and totally specializing in sexual addiction and betrayal trauma and loving it. Now, by this time, I had been married for 7 and a half years, and I was pregnant finally with my first baby.

And I had, you know, that just that D-Day that, that everyone listening is familiar with. So it was a horrible discovery. It was, I always just call it extreme acting out. It was, it was on another level and it was Totally shattering to me. I had to completely stop work. I had to call all my clients and say, I can't be your therapist anymore. I can't hardly even— I thought I would never do therapy again. I was convinced of it.

I do feel it was such a curse because I felt extra deceived. I felt so fooled and foolish, and it was truly just devastating. But at the same time, I knew, I knew all about SA. Lifeline. I knew all about going to group and the 12 steps and what you needed to be doing in therapy. And I knew about therapeutic disclosure. So luckily, I was able to say, okay, if, if this is going to work, this is what we have to do.

My husband was in a place of, of total desperation and actually grateful to be discovered. And so luckily, he was willing to do all of that, and we just really literally made that our full-time job for about 6 months. He started going to group 3 times a week with SAL groups. That was really life-changing. We did a full therapeutic disclosure anyway, and, and so now we've been on that journey for over 7 years, and that hasn't been perfectly smooth either.

I have to say that, so I don't want it to sound like— Never is. Putting a bow on it. It's still been up and down and it's been hard, but yeah. And so then I did go back to therapy after my baby was born and totally, it really did change how I, how I approached my clients with so much more empathy and understanding and experience. And so yeah, it was valuable and, and still it's the best and the worst.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tara McCausland: The gift in the ugly package, right? Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Well, I thought that the betrayed partners listening to this would appreciate that because I think what you explained, which was, I felt so fooled and so foolish, like you knew all of the things to look for, the red flags, and yet you didn't see it. And I think that's so much of what is shattering for the betrayed as you think, what was wrong with me that I couldn't see this?

Amanda Christensen: One other thing that has always helped me personally is that the betraying partner is not letting you know on purpose. I mean, I know that sounds so obvious, but it's helped me to, to know they, they were intentionally manipulating the situation. It's not like I'm stupid. I'm not, I'm not foolish. foolish. I was taking what I saw, and they intentionally made sure that I didn't see certain things, you know. And, and then when you do bring something up, they intentionally smooth it over and, and put it away.

So there's 2 people doing this dance, and, and one person is kind of confused but not really sure, and one person is really scared of being found out and trapped in their own version of reality. Yeah.

Tara McCausland: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Thank you again for sharing that. Very validating for those of us that have been in marriages for decades and didn't see it. Right. Um, so let's then talk about this, like, triage. Like, let's stop the bleeding post-discovery, first steps after a discovery or confession. And do you mind if we start focusing on the betrayed? Yeah. What first steps would you suggest for a betrayed partner?

Amanda Christensen: I do want to say everyone enters into— everyone's story kind of starts sometimes at a different point, right? So sometimes, I mean, most common, it is usually a discovery. And that feels like the beginning, but maybe there isn't a discovery until after you've already tried some things. You know, every couple can be somewhere along that path. And so it will look different for everybody, but In general, first things first is going to be safety. So are you safe?

If there is any physical abuse or sexual abuse happening that, that would be considered interpersonal violence or domestic violence, then the betrayed really does need to seek specialized support in that situation because you won't really be able to work on it within as things stand as they are. So I want to put that caveat on, on everything. Abuse is, is, is a tricky word and it's, it's being used a lot. And I agree that we need to call things as they are.

The addiction cycle is pretty emotionally abusive in general. But if there is physical or sexual violence, then the betrayed needs to seek Distance and support for that. Also, with safety, the betrayed needs to be looking into getting tested for STIs if that's applicable. Some might say everybody needs to do that. I think it's situational. It depends on if you, if you feel like there has been any physical acting out with other people, then Then definitely you would want to seek that out.

And that is hard. It's not easy to just go get tested for STIs. That in itself is, is a traumatic experience. You feel so embarrassed that you're there doing that. Every step of all of this is hard, and I'm going to talk about it like it's easy. Like, oh, just start doing this. Every single step is pretty excruciating, especially with the amount of trauma that the betrayed is in to be able to make any of these steps.

Yeah. Is a huge accomplishment, honestly. So another way of seeking safety would be making the environment safe just in general. So making the environment safe, sometimes there are multiple addictions happening at once and there's, you know, drugs hidden in closets or drawers. There might be easy access to pornography that, that the betrayed just wasn't aware of. A lot of times you just don't know what you don't know. You don't know that, that the TV, YouTube, whatever was just right there.

A lot of the betrayed are moms of small children. And, and so there's a lot to go into making the environment safe, kind of looking around and assessing, wait a minute. It's basically, I thought I was safe. I thought I was safe. I thought everything was okay. Maybe I had some questions, but I thought we were okay. And now. Boom. It's like it feels black and white. It feels like, what do I not know? And what's around me that's dangerous?

And so, you know, you want to just really assess for all of those things and take action there.

Tara McCausland: Right. And maybe I can ask a quick question. So I think you bring up a really good point that every single one of these steps requires a lot of courage and even a lot of like mental bandwidth, right? To make that step. For a woman who is terrified of going and getting tested for an STI, what might you tell her as, as a woman who has experienced betrayal, but also as a clinician to help her overcome even just the shame of taking that step?

Amanda Christensen: Yeah, it's so hard. It would be so nice if she could go with someone who is a support to her. I mean, that's, that's really so key. And of course, you know this with, with group and just gaining support in general, but don't do it alone. Don't go alone. Go with, go with a friend or a sister or a mom. Maybe your partner is totally, you know, helping you with every step of the way. It just depends on the situation.

And then also, again, it's, it's kind of what I was saying before is like, This doesn't define anything about your personhood. It's just, it's somebody else's choices that you trusted who exposed you.

Tara McCausland: I also appreciate you bringing up, I mean, oftentimes we don't, as a betrayed partner, we, we recognize we, we have things that we need to do to care for ourselves in that moment, but there's the, The collateral damage on the whole family, right? The ripple out to our children. Because I often get asked, like, my kids are sensing there's something wrong. Are there any first steps to take to help children who are maybe being impacted at this hard time but don't really know what's going on?

And we're not quite ready for disclosure.

Amanda Christensen: Yeah, that's always hard. It's a, it's a really hard dance. I, I think that kids know more than we think they know. They can tell that something's off, right? I mean, if, if mom's crying all the time or hiding her tears or her personality has just changed a little and dad's not around as much, I mean, they can pick up on things. So it's okay to say age-appropriate things, which would sound like mom and dad are having a hard time.

I mean, you can, you can do it at any level. You might say, We're figuring things out. And so dad's gonna live over here for a time. I mean, it depends on what you've decided to do, but a lot of kids do want to know something. And again, part of, part of being a betrayed spouse is now this mantle of what I have often felt is now, do I have to keep your secrets? I try to be an honest person.

I didn't, I don't wanna walk around like hiding parts of my life. But at the same time, I want to protect my family and I don't wanna shout it from the rooftops what you've done. Because that, that doesn't feel like protecting my family or myself. And so, so it's always this hard dance, like, I don't wanna now have to keep secrets from my kids. Yeah. But I also don't want to, I want to be responsible with this information and not, you know, give them too much that, that their little brains can't actually grasp.

So there's no real solid black and white answer here, right? It's just thoughtful. Think about, think about all involved. Sometimes when you're in crisis mode and you've just been betrayed, you just want to, there's kind of two presentations. It's like, I'm, I'm just vomiting on everyone and telling everyone, or I'm completely closing in and isolating. And both are going to have negative consequences. And so if you can be talking to a therapist or a sponsor or somebody safe who is not in crisis mode with you to help you discern, you know, what's, what's a good course of action here, and then really Your intuition.

I mean, I never tell anybody exactly how to parent because they are the parent of their children. But slow it down, just slow it down and slowly make choices, you know?

Tara McCausland: Yeah. Take the pause. Some great counsel that we've talked about in a previous episode kind of addressing this issue is don't make any major life decisions when you're in crisis mode, right? I don't decide to move. I mean, if you have to get space from the betrayer, then that's one thing. But pause on the divorce button, right? And, and wait. But thank you. I think we all want like really clear, cut and dried answers. And the reality is, is this is just really messy, but we do well to pause and to ask ourselves, what do I need to do for myself and for my family to create safety?

Yeah. And you've addressed that. Anything, anything else that you would say to the betrayed as we're taking first steps?

Amanda Christensen: So again, kind of what we're, what we're dabbling in here is gaining support. You definitely need to seek out an anonymous, an anonymous group does so much good because they're not involved in your life. And there's so many benefits to that. Just, I, I get to show up, I get to be vulnerable, I get to hear other people's vulnerability, and I get to leave. And I get like, and I don't have to deal with them at work and at church and on Thanksgiving, right?

So there's huge benefits to that. So you want to seek that out. And also, if you can, if there is even just one safe person in your personal life, that is so helpful as well. And that's, again, you have to be pretty discerning about that. And there's a lot of people who try to open up to a family member or a friend and they don't get a healthy response back. And so you're just learning and it's, it's kind of a disappointing road sometimes, but, but hopefully there is somebody there, you know, even just one person or two people or that over time you can have a safe place with them to, to talk about the journey.

And a lot of times when you open up, you don't even realize who you're talking to who has also been through this on some degree. So. So yeah, seeking support. Also seeking support would be finding a qualified therapist. And like I said, getting into a group that you could go to regularly and feels comfortable for you. If it doesn't feel comfortable, try another group. I'm always the one listening to clients who went to group. Oh, it wasn't my thing.

And I'm the one trying to say, give it, give it, like I always say, give it 8 times. That's just the number for me. Or find, you know, go to a different night, right? So, but, but again, back to that point, it is so hard to, to make those moves when you're feeling so much impact. And so do what you can. And, and that could also happen slowly, but, but don't do it alone. Yeah. Yeah. Also self-care.

People talk about self-care like it's this magical, I don't know, unicorn. When you're, when you're in this first crisis mode, all you need to be worrying about are the absolute basics. So are you eating? Are you sleeping? Are you going outside? You know, get some vitamin D, move your body, make yourself go to sleep at 10 o'clock instead of staying up till 3 AM interrogating your spouse, you know, because Netflix.

Tara McCausland: Because you're numbing out.

Amanda Christensen: Yes. Yes. There's so many things that, that are easy to fall into there. So, so just, just focus on those absolute basics that, that will help you function on a, just on like a human level. And then as time goes on and you get your feet underneath you, then you can start doing more things like, oh, okay, start meditation, start really journaling, start this hobby, you know. Yeah, a lot of people try to do everything at once and, and kind of breeze past just basic things.

And then boundaries. So you're just again at the beginning stages of setting boundaries, and, and a lot of times these boundaries are just going to be, okay, how will I respond if this happens? So you're just learning how to state those kind of boundaries. If this happens, I will respond in this way. And a lot of times that is just such a new skill. It's just a skill that, that is learned, and many people don't learn it in their families growing up.

There's not a class on it. There should be a college class on setting boundaries, right? Maybe there is, but I didn't take that one. So yeah.

Tara McCausland: Yes, excellent. Yeah, and we can never speak too much about boundaries. We've had probably 3 or 4 episodes already on Pathway to Recovery speaking to boundaries. And so if you're listening, you can go back and look for those episodes. But I just wanted to touch quickly again on this self-care piece before we move on. I appreciate that you emphasize this is just the essentials. We're not talking about going and getting massages and pedicures. Like sometimes when we think of self-care, we think of those types of things.

But when we're in this state of crisis and heavy trauma, trauma, we often forget to do those essential things that will help us be present and be in our bodies. Binging on a gallon of ice cream or Netflix or— these are coping mechanisms. They're ways to numb out. If you're doing that, practice self-compassion. We understand why, but we would invite you to take a step back and say, okay, what does my body really need? And it might look like walking outside barefoot on the grass and feeling the sunshine on your face.

And making sure you're drinking enough water and yeah, going to bed at a reasonable time so that, so that your body and your mind can start moving out, out of this just depth of trauma. Right. Right. Yeah.

Amanda Christensen: I have a close friend who just lost someone to suicide and it's just like so clear. Okay. She's grieving and she's not sleeping. She's not eating. And, and everyone is like surrounding her like, oh, you need to, Everyone knows that these, these are the basic things that she needs to be doing because she's grieving. And everyone knows that is so normal, right? There's no judgment there. But for some reason, with betrayal, it's kind of like sometimes we're not thinking of it so much as just deep grief.

Mm-hmm. And it's helpful to think of it as deep grief and loss. So take care of yourself in the way that one would take care of themself when someone they love Dies because someone they love kind of has died, right?

Tara McCausland: The person that you thought you were married to is not that person. And I think if we even think about it in those terms, we go, oh, yeah, this is heavy. And no wonder I'm struggling. Right. My life has been totally turned upside down. Well, and before we move on, just going to put a plug in for gaining support.

Amanda Christensen: Yes. Gain support.

Tara McCausland: As hard as that step is, healing in community, that really is the kryptonite of, of addiction and trauma. If we will come out into the light with people who understand what you're going through. So awesome, Amanda. You're, you're doing so well. So let's move on to the, the betraying partner, the one that's suffering from an addictive behavior. What would you say are the first steps for them?

Amanda Christensen: Okay, so this one is big and sometimes triggering for people to hear that the betraying partner is also in a lot of pain. They have caused so much pain, and to be the causation of so much pain is a hard place to be in because they didn't— usually did not want to cause this much pain, was in denial. Lots of denial, layers and layers and layers of denial of how much this would hurt the family. So the betrayer is hurting as well and needs a lot of the same things— basic self-care, gaining support.

Okay. In this period of time, sobriety is imperative. It is just not optional. We know that sobriety is not all of recovery, but it is a, it is a big part and it, and it leads to all the other good stuff. If, if you don't have sobriety, it's very hard to get all of the rest of recovery. And so I always say at all costs, because I see so many addicts in, in my office saying, I'm willing to do everything.

And then you suggest. Yeah. Okay. One of the main ways you acted out was through starting with social media. So let's get rid of social media. No, no, no. I don't think I need to do that. Right. And I just say at all costs, there is no access or permission that you need to have when you're fighting for your family. So, and that kind of puts it into perspective. Everybody wants to cling on to what little control they feel like they have, and it can be pretty disarming for For the addicts, right after this big blowup, then all of a sudden, oh wait, now I'm being watched.

I'm, I'm like being monitored. The addict needs to get the buy-in of, of sobriety at all costs because without that, he can't think clearly. He can't make the changes that he so desperately wants to make. And I believe that they want to change. Like I said, usually they want to change deep, deep down and they don't know how, and they've tried so many things. And even sobriety itself feels like the biggest hurdle. And they've assumed that sobriety would solve all their problems.

Well, yeah, but, but I'd say sobriety is kind of like the, the start of now getting into the deeper work. So close all the doors. That's just close every door that could give you access And that's why, too, like in therapy, we're going to start learning about, OK, what's the cycle? What are your rituals? And how can we close those doors? And that's not even the fun stuff of therapy. That's like, to me, that's just like, I mean, your sponsor could do this, right?

Mm-hmm. And your sponsor can be very helpful in doing this. I want to get to the meat. Why? What are you numbing? Why are you doing this? What is driving this? And we can't get there unless we've closed all the doors to acting out and learned how to deal with relapse. What do I do? And how can we look at that relapse and really learn from it?

Tara McCausland: Yeah, just a couple of things about that. I think for people who are just entering this world, it's like, well, sobriety is it, right? That's like what I'm working toward. And if I'm sober, then I'm good. We know that's not true. Sobriety is not recovery, but it is an important piece of recovery. I want to express a little bit of compassion for those people who struggle with this. It has become the drug of choice. It has become the way that they have coped with life.

And it's hard to be human. It's painful to live in this world. All of that said, that's why we start seeking for support. An alcoholic is the best one to help an alcoholic, is what AA says. And we would say the same thing at SA Lifeline. People who are working our program will understand what you're going through, and they can speak to you in ways that a person that maybe doesn't deal with your drug of choice, um, wouldn't understand.

So yes, come and, and find healing support in community, just like Amanda said. Sober at all costs. Shut all doors. If Facebook's the gateway and you're not willing to take off social media from your phone, Are you really serious about making a change? So I'll let you continue. What else?

Amanda Christensen: Yeah, defining bottom lines. Because the addict, they have to square their behavior with their values in some way, whether that's just totally compartmentalizing it, all that acting out is over here and this is who I really am, whether it's kind of giving permission like, oh, that's not really that bad. And maybe I want to change my values to fit around that, whatever it is, but we kind of need a clean slate of defining bottom lines, defining his own personal boundaries.

So what are the lines that, that I now will not cross? And if I cross them, it is considered a slip or relapse or whatever their terminology is. So, and that's good to get clear on for the couple too, and to be communicating that. It's part of boundary setting too, but, but, but really like internally for the betrayer to, to say, okay, because sometimes we're talking about pornography use. Sometimes we're talking about flirting with women at work, right?

And it's hard to perfectly define that. It's kind of gray, you know, like, well, what's appropriate and what's not? And, and so they really need to dig in and, and start defining what is and what is not within. their actual values. And as a coupleship, you know, what is okay in, in our relationship and what is not. That sounds so basic, but it is just pretty important to create those clear boundaries there. Yeah.

Tara McCausland: And again, another plug for a previous episode. Stephen and Raelle did a Q&A about what are the differences between bottom lines and boundaries and how, how do we go about setting them? What do those look like? So if you want to go back and listen to that, you get to hear Stephen talk about some of his personal bottom lines and the if-thens if you were to cross those lines. So thank you.

Amanda Christensen: That sounds really good. Yeah. And then for him, you just, sorry, I am saying him. I'm referring to the betrayer, which could also be female. Starting to learn emotional regulation. Again, that's kind of, okay, once we've got sobriety, now we need to look and, and give other options because a lot of times it's like, okay, we're just stripping away the, the entire way that you've coped with life. And they're like, well, what now? What do I do instead?

And so this is kind of where they're learning the, the other ways to emotionally regulate, which requires a lot of self-awareness. Yeah. And usually help from a therapist, feedback from group members, and their own spiritual journey of working the steps and going on that journey. But just being open to another way of coping with life that is hard for, for everyone. So it's new, it's vulnerable work, and it's important because you can't just take away your main coping and not know what to do about it.

Tara McCausland: Yeah. This is a process. The behavior is merely a symptom of some underlying issues. I mean, I'm, as a clinician, you know that this runs deep and we can't just stop the behavior and call it good. There's so much healing that needs to take place and that takes time. But we've talked now about The betrayed and the betraying partner. Did you want to speak to the couple? Because one of the hard things is, you know, we now have a marriage on fire, and we have 2 individuals probably still living in the same space.

And one is totally traumatized. One is trying to stop coping in the ways that they have been coping forever, and total dysfunction. What do you do at that point with the couple?

Amanda Christensen: This is kind of operational stuff, you know, what is this going to look like? Maybe one person is on board with really working recovery and maybe the other isn't. So you have to navigate that. Maybe both are, like I said in my story, okay, well, we're going to do this all the way, right? But that still takes a lot of planning and how do we move our life around this and what's it going to look like?

How do we make time for this? And what are the right places to go? So there's lots of decision points there, which again, when you're really clouded, it's hard to do. So it's good to seek other people who are calm to help you make those decisions. But you might be navigating a separation that might feel like the right thing. In therapy, I love a separation. Honestly, it more often helps the couple stay together, usually. Yeah. And, and when it doesn't, it feels like it was the right thing.

And, and the couple feels more sure. So a lot of people are afraid of a separation, but if you do it right in a therapeutic way, in a very structured way, it can be really helpful. So sometimes people are navigating that, they need help making those decisions. Um, they might want to be deciding together how to get support from Um, you don't need your partner's permission. I do, I do want to say that you don't need your partner's permission to get support from your family.

And if they are saying no, then that's, that is a sign of abuse. But, but, you know, if you're working together, then you're kind of talking about this and, and, and you're discussing, okay, well, maybe she needs to go stay at her parents' house for a little bit of time. You know, there's just so many situations that they need to make these decisions. Sometimes they had a big trip planned next week and, and they weren't expecting to have a huge discovery, right?

Or, um, yeah, they just have plans. Life is going and life doesn't stop for you to have a tragedy, which is hard. And so you have to make some decisions around that. So a lot of that is just kind of regrouping. Okay, what's going on? What are we doing? And again, this is, this is kind of under the assumption that you're working with a workable partner. And if it's not, then, then you're making decisions as an individual.

And along with that is kind of in this decision-making realm, you're also making plans for recovery. And you're kind of posing the question, what can I expect in this process? What can I expect from you? Here's what I can expect from— what you can expect from me. I am going to plan on attending group on this night, right? Can we make space for that? I'm going to be calling these 3 therapists and getting on waitlists. And I mean, you, you gotta move.

I always say like, crisis is a good time to move. It gets people going. So take advantage of like, everything's on fire. We gotta do something. It's often later on when it's harder to get people moving. Yeah. But yeah, what can I expect from you? And, and that's also kind of just making commitments to each other. This is how I'm going to be navigating this with these tools. A lot of people don't have all these great tools that, that you and I are listing, right?

Like qualified therapy and really great, amazing groups that I always say, like, you guys don't realize how good these groups are, right? And And so many people don't have access to groups throughout time, have not had access to the healing tools that we have, but a lot of people just don't know. And so they're just fumbling through this and trying their best. So if you have the tools, grab them. Basic stuff also, which kind of relates back to making the environment safe, also kind of Boundary setting too is installing whatever you feel needs to be installed.

I'm big on accountability software. I see no crutch to it. I've had a lot of clients who are like, but you know, if he has filters and like, if we close those doors, then he's not really doing recovery. My big thing is, do you wear a seatbelt when you're driving? Hmm. Yeah, because just in case you might get in a car crash. But you're not planning on getting in a car crash, but like we all wear our seatbelt.

So why wouldn't we put a filter on our phone? Why not? Just make access less easy. If an addict wants to act out, they will. Yes, 100%. They will find a way. But is it smart to put a seatbelt on them? Yes. So put accountability software on there. Get filters on your devices, put passwords on your TV, stuff like that. That's just kind of basic internet safety.

Tara McCausland: Sure. And which is helpful for children as well. We just don't want children happening upon pornographic stuff. So it's for the whole family, the welfare of the whole family.

Amanda Christensen: Yeah, it is. Yeah. And then you're going to start getting into Relational agreements, basically. And I have some examples of that if we want to. But just to give a, like a kind of a zoom out, an overview of what I see as a therapist is kind of like, okay, the couple comes in and again, they might not be at the beginning of their journey, but they might, they might still be in kind of crisis mode or they're ready to make moves and make changes.

So we're going to lay down this foundational stuff. Yeah. Kind of these basics that we've talked about today. And then we're going to start working individually on deeper stuff. So the betrayer is going to start working on a full disclosure. And in that process, we're going to be doing quite a bit of trauma work, probably, and emotional regulation, a lot of learning, and a lot of, you know, tapping into vulnerability that has Probably not been touched.

With her, we're going to be working on boundary setting and preparing to hear a disclosure and safety seeking. And then also like impact, what areas of impact have happened in this and how do we pick up from here? And then also a lot of past stuff too informs how they are experiencing the betrayal. Yeah. Then, you know, then we're going to get through the full disclosure process. And then after that is where, as a couple, they're going to be doing more vulnerable work and healing and trust building and witnessing each other's pain, things like that.

But up front is kind of like structure, stability, boundary setting. You know, you're usually teaching some kind of communication. How do we talk about this? Things like that. Yeah.

Tara McCausland: Yeah. Well, I appreciate that explanation because I know that I've heard a number of clinicians say the upfront work is not going to be couples therapy and it's going to be focusing on the individuals. But what you've described in helping the couple, like, we still have 2 people probably living in the same space. And so I appreciate that you bring up commitments and boundaries and bottom lines, which is not couples therapy. It is just creating some safety and stabilization and creating an environment to help calm things down because they still have to live with each other and, and raise kids, you know, parent together.

And that requires some level of calm. Yeah. So we can, we can look forward to couples therapy, but not immediately when we're In crisis. So great explanation there. And, and I want to say that all of this work, and it probably sounds, if, if you're new to this world, it's like, oh, I have to do all of this. Like, what would you say to a person that's just so new and feeling so overwhelmed? What's your counsel for them?

Amanda Christensen: I would say it should take time. It should take time because Change takes time and repair takes time. Take it slowly. And it's so hard. I remember, I remember myself being at the beginning of betrayal and just saying out loud, I just wish I could see us in 5 years. Hmm. I have, I have no clue, no clue what that's gonna look like. I don't know. I don't know. And I wish I could just have a crystal ball.

Why can't my higher power just show me a vision and tell me, you know, it's gonna be okay, right? And so we just, we want to see the end and it's never the end, right? Like I said, it's, it's still a journey, but you just take one day at a time and you do one thing at a time and you have this little breakthrough and you have this important conversation that finally feels real and honest and that is good.

And then you build off of that. And you're not gonna change the world and you're not gonna get all the trust back and, and you're not going to feel like you felt before probably ever again because you're going to feel something different. And hopefully that's growth happening, but it's going to be slow and it should be slow.

Tara McCausland: Well, thank you for that. And that crystal ball would be nice, wouldn't it? Uh, I think that's where the 12-step work really becomes so valuable as we learn then to tap in into the power of the God of our understanding. And rather than trusting in outcomes, putting our faith in outcomes, we trust in God that he will take us through this. And sometimes we felt very betrayed by God in this process, and, and that requires healing.

But the 12 steps and going to an SAL 12-step group can really help you as you look around. I've heard so many women say, when I first entered those rooms of recovery, I was so bothered that I saw joy. Like these women were laughing. But as you describe, like, I want to see where I, where I could be. Well, you can have a type of a crystal ball if you go and you get in community and, and step into those rooms of recovery, because you can see other people walking this journey.

And while it's not yours, they're, they're ahead of you in some ways. And they can show you, they can walk alongside you and show you this is what recovery looks like. There is There's joy to be found when it feels impossible to reclaim a sense of peace and safety. There's even joy on the other side of this. So if there's anything that might get you into a recovery room, I might say that would be it, that you can see people doing this and they're okay.

They're okay. Not just okay. They are happy. Yeah. Miraculously.

Amanda Christensen: Right, right. Yeah, it's so powerful to see those examples. And I'm always just hoping for my clients, you know, it's, it's even scary for me when I say go to group and they actually commit to it. And I'm, and I think about them and I'm coming into the next session, like, I sure hope it was good, right? And, and I'm just like, I'm excited to hear how it went. And I'm hoping that there are some Solid people in those groups that have provided some hope and some peace, you know, like a feeling of serenity that like the world didn't crumble.

It felt like it was going to, and, and it didn't. It did in ways, but it's so inspiring. So looking up to people and learning from their experiences is really powerful. And if you don't have that, it's really hard to get any kind of grounding. Yeah. Or gauge on how you're doing.

Tara McCausland: Yeah, yeah, that's an excellent point. Well, as we're closing up here, I always ask the same question of our guests, and you kind of actually answered the first one, which is, what would you tell someone that's just starting this journey? And maybe you have more to say on that point, but the follow-up question is, what would you tell someone who's been walking this path for a while?

Amanda Christensen: Yeah, I'm right there with you, honey. That's what I would say. You're not alone. Yeah, there's hope and things will change. Things will fall into place. Yeah, it's hard to have that kind of faith, but we have no idea what even tomorrow brings. Tomorrow might feel a little bit better and the next day might feel a little bit better and nothing is permanent.

Tara McCausland: Yeah. Count on the sun, sun coming back. Those clouds will eventually move and that the sun's always there. It may just be a little cloudy for a while. Yeah.

Amanda Christensen: Yeah. And like every emotion is important. We're not even just trying to get to the sunny spots. It's like, what am I learning from this emotion? Just be curious. Just be curious about what's happening for you. And that's so hard to do. I, I know when you don't have any hope and you're desperate for it, you're looking at these outside things to give you some sense of hope. And again, you just, you need to go inward and upward and get some serenity.

Tara McCausland: And maybe I can ask, any words of advice, counsel to those struggling with addiction, newcomer or old timer?

Amanda Christensen: Yeah, man, just keep trying. Just keep, keep trying. I know that they've tried so many things and feel so helpless and powerless. So keep trying and address the shame. That's, that's usually number one is try to have self-compassion. Try to, try to harness that as much as you can. It's hard to do, but you, it's hard to grow without that. I mean, or else you're just kind of doing the motions and Well, thank you so much, Amanda.

Tara McCausland: This has been such a great discussion. And again, I'm so grateful for you, grateful for the work that you're doing in your practice. And I just recognize how challenging this work can be. And it takes a big heart and a strong back to carry on with it. So keep up the good work. Thank you.

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