Step 3 – Willingness, Boundaries, and Relief w/ Brittany B

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.

Justin B.: Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery podcast of SA Lifeline Foundation. My name's Justin B. I am a son of an all-powerful and all-loving God and a recovering addict. Grateful to be here and be part of this program, be part of recovery and how it works and what a miracle it is in my life. Grateful to have Brittany with me today. As you're aware, as you've followed us over the last little while, we're going through each of the 12 steps of recovery, getting experience, strength, and hope from people Whether they be sex addicts themselves or whether they be the betrayed partners of sex addicts, and talking about how working the steps has made big differences in our lives and how we apply these principles in all aspects of our lives.

So as we are about ready to get into Step 3, first I'd like to introduce Brittany and just have her share with us a little bit about herself, why she's in the rooms, and what she's doing. in her recovery today. Brittany, go ahead, have at it.

Brittany B: Thanks for having me. So when I first came to my first 12-step meeting and we read through the 12 steps, I was just hit with power. And I, I knew immediately that it was going to change my life and that I recognized those steps as truth. And whereas I hadn't been able to get what I needed before that, was in pretty, a pretty miserable spot and feeling really, really miserable is the best adjective there. That brought me hope.

And so that's why I keep coming back is because it really is a privilege to be in those rooms with people who are also seeking their own recovery, to be there with people who are accountable to their higher power and to another human being as well. Yeah. And their own recovery. And the accountability is amazing. And, and the miracles that I see regularly in people's lives are astounding to me, including my own. And so it's brought me peace.

It's brought me hope. One thing that I really love about the 12-step program is that it taught me tools right off the bat that I needed desperately. And so the first tool that I learned was to reach out. And that was all I knew. And so shortly after I started 12-step meetings, my husband relapsed and I just thought, what do I do? I don't know what to do. And then I remembered, oh, I reach out. And so I reached out and that person ended up being my sponsor, still is my sponsor.

And I just, I felt peace. And the other one would be surrenders and boundaries. So sponsorship, surrenders, and boundaries are the 3 pillars of the program as I see it. And so those, those tools right off the bat have changed my life.

Justin B.: Well, thank you so much for sharing those things with me, Brittany. I'd like to kind of dig just a little bit on what you shared at the very beginning. When you first came into the rooms, you heard these steps for the first time and you immediately felt hope. You immediately saw truth. What were some of the principles in that first meeting that stick out at you as things that you saw as truth or that brought you hope right away?

Brittany B: Good question. Let me open up my, to my 12 steps here. I guess I just understood them as things that I'd, I'd experienced personally in my own life over and over again, not in that order, not in a program, but just as in my own journey to my God, to my Heavenly Father, that these are things that I knew that he could and had done for me. Mm-hmm. At, at, you know, micro levels or even macro levels in my life over and over again.

And so to me, I was like, oh, well, I already know these things work and I've never seen them in this order before or organized in this fashion before, but I do know that all of those things work. And one thing that in particular that I love that shows me when something is true is that you share it. And that is part of growth. Mm-hmm. If there's no sharing, There's no truth. Um, and so that's something that I recognized immediately.

Justin B.: I love that. If there's no sharing, there is no truth. So talk to me a little bit more about that. How, how has that principle, maybe not in recovery, how did you come to that testimony of that principle? If there's no sharing, there's no truth in your life.

Brittany B: It's a deeply, yeah, it's a deeply Christian principle. Obviously when Christ comes and he, he talks to Simon Peter, lovest thou me? Feed my sheep. And so there's a lot of denominations that are not outward looking as far as like cross-lighting. And to me, that's a mark of truth. So if I have truth and I'm not sharing it, I'm not completing it. And so for me, I see growth as, and I've seen this for a long time, but it's the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ that I can apply it to.

And basically I see it as like a circular spiral staircase ascending up. Mm-hmm. And that's what it looks like to me. And so when there's no circle and the circle is reconnected when we share. And so that's me giving back. It's a natural cycle. I even see it in nature. I'm talking about natural cycles and the seasons and, you know, the life and then the death through the winter and then the regrowth. Like that's what natural cycle looked like.

And so I knew that it would work. And I've experienced it myself in other ways too. And that's how I work. I guess I don't want to say naturally because as I've come closer to my Lord, that's what I want to do is I want to share something that if that second I find like I've gotten inspiration, I'm like, oh, that's beautiful. Who can I share it with is my next go-to.

Justin B.: Love it. And that's absolutely what the 12-step program is. And the 12th step is having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we try to practice these principles in everything we do and share this message with others.

Brittany B: Just really quick, the one thing that I love about it that like the most that I've learned, I've learned how to share in a powerful way. And I've been able to teach people to share in a powerful way. And the way that it looks like for me is, is speaking from, uh, me and my. And that I, I did a presentation for some girls, some young women that were in high school age. And they, I was teaching them about values.

And so we have this long list of values and I invited them to find ones that they identified with that were truly their own values. And then I invited them if they'd like to, to share what those values were. And so some of them chose to do that and they said, well, this is a value and it's important because, and da da da, and they're talking about, you know, in third person essentially why it, you know, it's important.

I said, okay, wait, wait, wait. This is your value, right? This isn't necessarily mine. This is yours. So give it to me from you. I'm hearing, I want to hear it from you. Yeah. And everything changed in the room and the power just exploded when these young women said, this is my value. This is how I utilize it in my life. And this is why I think it's important for me. And I was blown away by the power in the room.

Justin B.: So. That's a, that's a beautiful experience that you've just shared there. And I agree that when I share in the I, me and not the we, our, or the you, your, it just brings so much more power into it. And I also love this. you know, this principle of sharing in my own life, I call that the know and do principle. If I know something, I need to do something about it. If I don't, it doesn't do me or anybody else any good.

And such a powerful thing. And you talked about, if you love me, feed my sheep. Another place that Jesus said to Peter, he said, when you are converted, strengthen your brethren. And if I have that spiritual awakening, I need to share it with others. That's beautiful. I love this. And I love how we're Bringing this all into the steps here. Now, what you and I are going to be talking about mostly here is Step 3, and Step 3 reads, we made a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

So Brittany, talk to me a little bit about the verbiage in Step 3, that principle, and what's important to you about that before we start talking about Step 3 experiences.

Brittany B: I guess the things that stand out to me right away are turn. And that, that's again, again, a Christian principle that's largely applicable to any spiritual life, but to turn means to change. And, and so what I found, turning my will over to my Heavenly Father requires me to be willing. That's the next thing that stands out is my will. And I was just teaching my kids the other day that I was like, that's all we've got, guys.

Like, that's all we've got to give. And so when I think of, if I had to describe step 3 in one word, it would be willingness. And, and then the next word would be relief. And that's what step 3 looks like to me. It looks like willingness followed by relief. So for me, when I think of willingness, I literally have to have a hard time not even opening my hands. Like I have to open them when I'm saying that word.

And so willingness, 'cause I, I had a therapist one time who said, open your hands. And then she'd like close them. And, and I, I'm a fighter. Like, I'm just like inherently like, I'm a fighter. Come at me, you know? And I'm not like aggressive, but I'm, I'm gonna protect my own. And I'm not afraid to like have it out. I'm, I'm a frank, honest person, and I, I appreciate when people are that with me as well.

And so opening my hands was a practice that was actually difficult for me physically to do. And now I can't survive without it. Yeah. Because I, holding onto it hurts too bad and it's too heavy and it's unbearable. And so that's all step 1 and 2. And so step 3 was just opening my hand to me. And when I do that, my Heavenly Father, he invites me over and over again in all kinds of ways that he and I understand to open my hands again.

And then he just takes it. And then what I've found is when my hands are open, he relieves the burden and then he places what I actually need back in my hand.

Justin B.: I love that imagery. And I love how, I mean, I'm sitting here watching you open your hands, willing, take it from me. Now you talked about, I turn, I have my willingness, which is followed by relief. And you, you alluded to that, hey, if I am holding onto this, it's too much. I can't do it. It's painful. You also said, I'm a fighter. I'm going to defend what's my own. Tell me about the shift in your own mentality as you came into recovery.

Maybe I'm putting myself in your shoes here and you tell me if I'm wrong, thinking I have to take care of this myself. I have to carry this and fix it myself to this change that may have happened. Is that your experience? And if so, tell me about it.

Brittany B: Yep. Yeah. I think we all relate in our own ways, but that's definitely been my experience. Before I knew about my husband's addiction, we'd been married for several, many years and things were just not right. And I was struggling so much and we were in circumstances that I was super unhappy with. And just like our general living circumstances were not what I wanted, not what we talked that we have everything. It was just so disappointing. Honestly, I felt so much humiliation in my life, um, due to my husband's choices.

And, and so I was constantly trying to fix it because again, I'm a fixer and I'm a fighter and I got this and I want to fix it. And so, um, also self-respect, like I just want to fix what I can. And I think that's a self-respecting position to take. But when I didn't understand that it wasn't mine to fix, I really couldn't fix it. And so I had this moment where I had fasted for a couple of days and I prayed to my Heavenly Father and I asked him at this point, what more can I do?

Like to get out of this situation that I am so unhappy. I'm so deeply unhappy. I feel like I'm losing myself. And I'm expressing this to my husband. He's not changing anything. He's sympathetic. And he's not doing anything different, and I don't know what to do. And God told me clearly, you're doing enough. And then after that, my, my immediate thought was, if I'm doing enough, why does my life suck so bad? And the next thing that God told me was, it's not because you're enough, it's because Jesus is enough.

And I was, it took me years to understand what that meant, and I really didn't understand it until I got into the 12 steps. Mm-hmm. Because again, I was like, well, if Jesus is enough, why does my life still so bad? It still doesn't make sense to me. And so, so I had that experience and then it was sometime later, definitely several months later that I was again, I was thinking through, okay, what's the next like goals I can make for my husband to help him?

Like, I know he says he wants XYZ, but he's having a hard time getting there. What can I do to help him get there was my take on it, how I tried to help. And, and so I was on my next round of, okay, this didn't work. Let me, can I hire somebody to help him in this area? Can we do this? Like, just all my ideas all the time. And as I was thinking about this on a Sunday night, I had the distinct impression to ask my husband about pornography.

And then I just knew. I knew right from that moment that it wasn't my fault and that I couldn't fix it. Yeah. God was telling me, you're trying to fix it and this is not your problem. And that was clear as day to me. Mm-hmm. And I knew that there was an addiction or something. I didn't know about addiction, but, and then I was able to ask him in that moment, like a minute later, you know, I was like, hey, let's sit down and asked him about it.

And of course he lied his way through that conversation. But, but it didn't matter to me because I knew that there was a problem because of the inspiration that I had. So I knew that I was dealing with something. And that we'd eventually have to figure this out. And when I was having that conversation with my husband, I am a fixer, so I wanted to be like, okay, what can I do? How can I help? And I had God hold me back.

Like, it, like, it felt like he just held me back. Mm-hmm. And just said, it's not yours. And I felt total relief. And I know that some women feel opposite when they get that load on them, but for me, I felt relief. I lost like several pounds right away, not out of grief, out of relief. Mm-hmm. And then I got in with a wonderful counselor right away who was able to help me learn about addiction. And, and, and it was really cool because right off the bat she was like, do you want to be his mom?

I was like, no, that's exactly what I don't wanna be. And that's what I've been. And that's what I hate. And that's what's ruining everything, you know, on my end. And, and so she would help me realize like, well, then you gotta let go. And so it was very cool. It was a really neat experience. Yeah.

Justin B.: So I think I want to sit there for a minute because like you said, so many people don't react that way when they're either made aware or, you know, discovery happens in one way or another of it's not mine to fix. I'm just gonna, I don't know, it's step back isn't the right thing. But I'm not going to go in and be his mother, like what you said there. How do you think you were able to, to come at it from that direction?

What prepared you for that in your life to be able to do that?

Brittany B: I think that God prepared me in a lot of ways looking back, you know, like even just like the very first one that comes to mind is that when we were newly married and we'd had our second baby, we had 2 little babies. And my husband wasn't at school. He was in a grad program. And I was rocking our baby in the front room. And I was praying. I just started praying out of nowhere. And I, and I said in my prayer, if my husband ever cheats on me, um, I prayed to be able to forgive him.

And I'm like shocked that I said that. And I was just shocked. Why the heck would I say something like that? Because of course I wouldn't forgive him. Right. I'm a fighter. Are you kidding me? Like I would murder him, you know, not literally, but you know, and so I, and so That, but that like was the first thing I could link to that God was preparing me. And that was years before I found out because it was so like opposite of my nature and it was just given to me.

And then, but that doesn't link exactly to what you asked for, but I think over time God gave me resources. Like I had another one who, I don't know, I just, I was a part of Jennifer Finlayson Fife. She's a therapist and I've. Followed a lot of her stuff for a few years, and that was really helpful for me to get in a healthier mindset. And then she had a Facebook group that was helpful for me to get into.

I wouldn't listen to it now and be on there now. I think I would find it much too triggering and unhelpful. But at the time when it started, it was helpful for me and it helped me see things from like different people's perspectives. And it gave me a ton of data that I never would've had access to otherwise. Yeah. like a therapeutic context. And so it helped me a lot. So I followed her and I, I think I had another Facebook group that I followed.

And after that, I got off of Facebook entirely. And that's been a part of my healing and growth. But honestly, I think those things were actually a gift from God because it helped me to get so much experience in so short of a time to learn how to be healthier.

Justin B.: Now there's a lot in there and I'd like to sit in there for a little bit and talk about how this applies in a step 3 principle, you know, step 3, I I turn my, my will and my life over to the care of God as I understand God. You mentioned something there, and I'm not going to go into specifics in what you mentioned there, but there are some things that maybe used to be helpful that maybe are no longer helpful.

How do you come to the decision to say, maybe that's not what I need to be sitting in and dwelling on anymore? Maybe I need to be moving on to the next thing. How do you come to that decision?

Brittany B: Well, I mean, one other thing is I took, before I found 12 steps, I had read a lot about addiction at that point. I read, uh, Patrick Carnes. He's an outstanding therapist and the father of sex addiction. Uh, you know, he discovered it as an addiction. And so my therapist immediately recommended him to me. I read his Facing the Shadow, which was outstanding. It's written to addicts. And so it's funny that she actually recommended it to me, but it was outstanding to me, 'cause then I actually learned what to expect.

What are some possibilities here? Like it was before we did disclosure, before I knew anything about what was going on. So your question was, how do I know when something's no longer helpful when it has been helpful? I mean, with social media, for example, I just couldn't handle it at all after the disclosure. And when I got into therapy, I, something had to go and I needed serenity. And so that was an easy Like, no duh, obviously has to go.

And so, I mean, everybody has their social media. There's, there are so many potentials for good and it's filled with so much crap that it's like, I just don't have the energy to sift through that at this point. And I really have gold with the 12-step group. So it's like, why would I go back? There's no point for me to go back. Like, I have wisdom here. I don't need to search, you know, on social media for me.

Yeah.

Justin B.: No, that's good. And thank you for sharing that. So it was basically just a, you know what, this isn't helpful for me. I'm not finding serenity when I open it up. I'm getting restless, irritable, discontent, whatever it may be. And I need to keep my serenity.

Brittany B: Yeah, it's exactly. Thank you. You said it better than I, but it's basically a marker of serenity. Like, is it helping? And if it's not, I don't have time for it. Yeah.

Justin B.: And I think this is a really important point. to make sure that as we share this with each other and share this with those who will be listening, that it comes across clearly. And it's something that I struggle with. If I am not finding serenity or connection with my higher power in an activity, whether it be something that I love, I love watching sports on TV. I love it. I love it. Love it. Love it. But it's not good for me.

I can't do it like I would love to do. I have to be willing to surrender that, to abandon that, to turn that over as a willing offering with my hands open to God and not hang on to it for dear life. And I think that's a really important thing. If it's not bringing me serenity or connection with God, I probably need to step back from it and give it over. Any other thoughts on that, Brittany?

Brittany B: No, I think you hit it right on the money there.

Justin B.: Okay. Very good. So you became aware that your husband struggled with pornography, even though it wasn't brought out. You mentioned he lied through that initial conversation. How long from the time that you knew until you stepped into 12-step rooms for the first time?

Brittany B: So I found out in April and I went to my first meeting, I think in December.

Justin B.: And in those months in between, you were just doing a lot of research on different things or what?

Brittany B: I started right away researching about addiction because I, I, when I met with my therapist, I was like, well, this is the problem. Like he, he talked about, you know, pornography being a problem, but here's other two, a couple of other main issues in my marriage, the way I see it. And she's like, it's all linked together. And I was like, how is that even possible? That didn't make sense to me at all. That was not a logical connection there.

And she was able to finally, after I asked her several questions, like, you just go learn about addiction. And that's why she gave me Patrick Carnes' book. And so, yeah, I was learning about addiction. I was reading a lot and I'm just like, give it, give me all the resources. So trying to, you know, gather resources, information. And then I joined a group. It was a Christian ministry group. It was the only thing I could find.

I didn't know where to get help and I wasn't telling people. I was keeping it all very under wraps. Yeah. Um, including in my family and close friends. Nobody knew what was going on. And I joined this Christian ministry group and it was helpful to a point, but again, it was like I would leave the meetings and feel more angry than when I started because I was like, now I don't have to, I just, I now I hate my husband and all of your husbands.

Like, I don't want to be in this group. So it felt like such a downer. And that's not what I want. I don't want to be a victim. Like right off the bat, I did not want to be a victim. Yeah. This is funny cuz I don't think this is typical of other women's stories, but this was my experience, is that I'd seen a lot of victimhood in women and I did not wanna do that for myself.

And so I was determined not to be a victim. And so I actually tried to even justify my husband's behavior, like off the bat. I'm like, I mean, is it really that bad? Like, is he really cheating on me if he hasn't like been with a physical person? You know, I, I wish I wasn't sure if he had or not at that point even, you know, so I was just trying to justify it. Yeah. And, and that's in the Blue Book, you know, where it talks about, you know, if we're— people do that or they try to control it or they, you know.

So I guess I was trying to justify it off the bat and my therapist helped me be like, well, yeah, most people think that it's a betrayal. And I'm like, okay. And, you know, 'cause then it made me feel like, well, then I have to deal with it. You know, I can't just sweep it under the rug, which logically I knew that. It was ruining my life. God told me himself that like, this is your whole problem.

Justin B.: Right. No, that's super powerful. And I think, like you said, it's, it may not be typical for everybody and it's not for everybody listening. Your experience is not the same as everybody else's, but it is very powerful to share. Maybe over this time of, of, of this, have you ever felt yourself going into that victim thinking and victim feeling? And how do you come out of that when you do?

Brittany B: Oh yeah, totally. Well, surrender is a huge tool that I use. That to me is like the most magical thing I've ever learned in my life. And so I like to take my defects usually that are showing up when I'm in that mode and say, okay, what is it that's hindering my serenity? And, um, maybe I'm jealous, maybe I'm angry, maybe I'm taking on too many burdens. Maybe I'm blaming. Blaming is one of my defects, one of my top defects.

And, and then I can surrender that. And when I do, I feel peace.

Justin B.: What did that surrender process look like? Let's, let's take blaming because you said this is one of my top ones. When you find yourself blaming, whether your husband, your kids, your neighbors, whatever it may be, the government, and you find yourself blaming, how do you physically or mentally or emotionally, spiritually walk through that surrender process step by step?

Brittany B: Okay. So I just do it as a prayer. And I just say, basically pray to my God and, and say, I surrender my blame. And I, it is magical every time. It is magical. And I know like a full surrender is to say it out loud to somebody else. So I'll text it to my sponsor when I'm like 100% on and doing great. But if nothing else, I say it to my God and I feel immediate relief every time.

So that has like transformed my whole relationship with God. Surrender's half, because I think for me, it puts me in the right place in relationship to God. He's not my friend. He's not my pal. He's not my therapist. He's my God. And for some reason, that really helps me see myself in proper relationship to him. And what that looks like is humility. When I'm in proper relationship to my higher power, it's a higher power. Yeah. That means I'm lower, right?

And I'm surrendering. To me, that just, it just feels so complete to me and it feels like relief. Hmm.

Justin B.: So I'm going to push back just a little bit here so I can get your take and maybe your perspective on this. I can think of, you know, early in my non-recovery, early in my struggles and realizations that I can't do this on my own. My surrenders would look like, God, take this from me as I'm gripping with as tight as I can and begging. And in addiction, I mean, how many thousands and thousands of times did I pray, God, take this from me, you know, clench my fists and scrunch up my eyes and grit my teeth and everything.

And it never worked. What is the difference between me saying that and your experience of God, I surrender my, my blame. What's the difference?

Brittany B: Well, I guess it's totally different because there's the willingness there and not trying to fight. I'm recognizing what is. So that helped me a lot. I read a book, uh, from another recommendation from my therapist. It's by Tara Brach, B-R-A-C-H-I-V, and she wrote Radical Acceptance. And that book helped me a lot. And it's based in probably Buddhist ideology. But the part that I loved was about essentially surrender. And I didn't know the process then. It was before I joined 12-step.

It changed my life though. And they talk about the, when Buddha became enlightened and he was sitting under the tree and he had all of these forces come at him, all these temptations. You know, one was a, you know, a sexy woman, you know, and all these facades essentially, 'cause it's a spiritual battle here. It wasn't the physical. And as they came, he felt his body responding to the temptation, and he acknowledged the temptation. Here you are.

Here is my natural human inclination and response. And as soon as he acknowledges it, it disappears. There's no more power over him. And so me recognizing my blame is powerful, and recognizing that I am inclined to do so. And that without God, I, I'm a blamer and I blame and I love doing it and it makes me miserable. And so, you know, there's magic in just acknowledging my natural inclination and recognizing that I don't have power over it.

That's why I'm praying about it. Because if I did, I would have fixed it a long time ago.

Justin B.: Yeah. Do you utilize the Serenity Prayer much in your day-to-day life?

Brittany B: I mean, I think this surrender is the Serenity Prayer. So I would say yes, all the time.

Justin B.: I love that.

Brittany B: It gets me in that, what is my relationship to God? It gets me in that proper position. Hmm.

Justin B.: I love that. Yeah. I'm, I'm just sitting here mulling this, that a surrender is the Serenity Prayer. And for those who may not be familiar with the Serenity Prayer, I'm just going to do the 3 basic lines that are universal and not the whole thing here, but God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. And in that, what you just shared, you know, the accept the things I cannot change, that's God's line.

That's not my line. Right. And my experience with that is that line, if I've got a line across, you know, a whiteboard at the front of a classroom, that the things that I cannot change is almost the entire line. Whereas the courage to change the things I can is like an inch. at the end of the board, you know, and the wisdom to know the difference. What, what are your thoughts on that?

Brittany B: Uh, I would say most everything in my life is in that first line. I don't lack for courage, like naturally. I'm one that like wants to just, if there's something to be done, I want to jump in and do it. It's one of the values that I have. You know, I love it in others. And I mean, of course I pray for courage sometimes too, because I don't always have what I need. But I really have found, honestly, it's, it's funny because we live in a culture in the West Just what the Western paradigm is, one of individuality.

And in fact, it's a hyper-individualistic society to a point that it's absolutely dysfunctional on many levels. Meaning that I was taught growing up in school and, you know, that you can control your life. You are the architect of your life. I found that to be terribly unhelpful and not just not useful, not true even. Hmm. Life is, and I, I can't control most of what happens to me. I really just control my reaction to it. And so obviously I can like be a planner and I am, I'm a planner and I'm a doer and I'm a whatever.

And coming from that perspective, it's create whatever I wanted and I haven't been able to do that. And so initially before I got into 12 steps, I felt so humiliated. Yeah. about my life, that it wasn't what I had wanted and what I'd planned for and what I'd tried for and tried to create. I felt like an absolute failure. I felt so embarrassed by my life. And now I have those, that feeling come up once in a while still, but it's been mitigated in a major way.

Just realizing, you know what, I, I cannot control my life.

Justin B.: I wanna Kind of bring a few of these things together and put it into a 3rd step paradigm. What have you learned about expectations for your own life, for maybe others around you and how it relates to this concept of step 3, to this concept of surrender, to this concept of letting God prevail, I guess, in your life?

Brittany B: Expectations are the mother of disappointment, right? Heard that before. And actually before I knew about the addiction and things were quite miserable in my life and my expectations were just crumbling all the time and, or being destroyed, I would say. And I remember I was like, well, maybe if I just don't expect anything, then I'll be happier. And so I just decided that I wasn't gonna expect anything. I was gonna lower my expectations. I made like this conscious decision to do that.

And then I was like, and then I'm gonna lower 'em again. Yeah. Actually it worked for a little bit. I was happier because I wasn't obsessed about what I didn't have. But my mother pointed out, she's like, that's not a long-term solution. And she was right. She was— was not a good long-term strategy, um, for, for me because I lost myself in the process because there, there was a lack of boundary, right? If there's no expectation and boundaries, I think that can actually work out really well for me anyway.

Mm-hmm. Where it's like, I can't control you. You get to do what you want with your life. And out of self-respect, this is how I'm going to live my life. And if you're not, you know, here and I, that's where I'm at. Like, this is, I guess you could call that an expectation. Just say, that's where my uncomfortable, like, that's what I'm willing to accept. That's where my willingness starts. My willingness starts here. And if that doesn't work for you, then we part ways or we have a conversation about that because I can't live in a self-respecting way.

Yeah. Under that circumstance.

Justin B.: Can you give a specific example of what that would look like? Um, low or reasonable expectations plus boundaries. How, what would a situation like that look like in your life?

Brittany B: Oh gosh. I mean, one is that like when I go somewhere like out for the night or whenever, and I have a meeting or I'm out with friends or whatever, and I come back home, I just don't expect anything to be done. Like, I don't expect the house to be clean. I don't expect the kids to, like, the kids might not be in bed. The kids might not have their teeth brushed. I just don't expect anything.

And then I'm just like kind of delighted when things are done. And often actually my husband does do all those things. He cleans the house up. He is good with kids and whatever. But it's, it's just still not an expectation that I have. And I, I feel better that way. I don't know if that's the right way to handle it. I just know that's how it is in my life where I'm like, you know what? That's great.

If it's, you know, if it's done, that's great. And if it's not, it wasn't mine. I wasn't here and the kids were, I knew they'd be safe. So I could, you know, leave them. It's not like I'm leaving them with somebody who's unsafe. He's safe. I can leave them. We're good. And if all the things I would like to have done while I wasn't there didn't get done, then that's fine. It wasn't that I wasn't there.

I was doing something else.

Justin B.: And how do boundaries fit into that?

Brittany B: Well, I think boundaries would come in if my husband was an underperformer in those ways. Then I would say, okay, I can't go. I'm going to have to get a babysitter or take the kids to somebody else's house because there's a lack of trust there. And so the more, like the, like the lower the trust, the more the boundaries.

Justin B.: Okay. Thank you for drawing that picture. I think that's really helpful for me. I think it'll be really helpful for a lot of people. As you've been sharing about this concept of acceptance, of surrender, of serenity, a paragraph from the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous really came to mind. And if you don't mind, I'd like to read At least part of this paragraph. It's from page 417 of the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. And it reads, And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today.

When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing, or situation, some fact of my life unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake. So as I read that, you've basically said this over and over again in this conversation already in different words, but what are your thoughts on, on that idea, on that concept?

Brittany B: It just makes me want to laugh because it's so personal because before, before 12-step, I would actually use the word unacceptable all the time. And I found that I actually don't even use that word anymore because it's totally unhelpful. Like somebody would do something like, I remember I was helping somebody clean their house and I'm a cleaner. Like I want things to be clean and tidy. And so I remember I was helping somebody. I had been asked, oh, here, can we help, you know, clean this house?

And I was like, okay. And I knew this person had a pretty dirty house. And so we were cleaning the bathroom and it was pretty disgusting. And I remember saying, this is totally unacceptable. Yeah. I wouldn't say that anymore. Now I would say I'm actually not gonna clean that house because that person doesn't value cleanliness. There's no point in me going over there. Like that's not something that they value. And so I would have a boundary around it.

And if somebody were sick, that would be different. It would, it was a different circumstance than that though. Mm-hmm. And I, I don't know if that makes sense. Like it's not that I would never help somebody clean, it's just that when somebody who doesn't value cleanliness, I wouldn't help them clean. No, because why would I do that to myself? So they don't care and I care a lot. And so I, I don't think it matters that, or it's helpful.

But yeah, I would say all the time, that's just unacceptable. Like the way that person behaved is totally unacceptable. And again, I don't say that anymore. I would just be like, that is that person. Like that is what they're choosing to do. And what do I wanna do about it? And that might mean I need some space. For example, in, uh, the children's group in my church. I was asked to substitute one Sunday and I did, and it was a total nightmare.

It was terribly run and it was chaotic. And I have 5 kids, like, so I know chaos, but this was just too much. And the kids were running the show and I was just like, this is unacceptable. You know, like, that's it. And so anyway, but I, I actually didn't go there this time cuz I had been in 12-step and I thought this was so chaotic. I won't come back. And so I just made a decision that I wouldn't be substituting if that's the way they were going to run the organization, because I couldn't, and I wouldn't make my kids go either if they chose not to go.

I didn't announce that to my kids, but I just thought if they complained about it and it's too loud for them and overwhelming, I would never make them go because I'm not going to make myself go. That was horrible. So I made a boundary around it.

Justin B.: I find this absolutely fascinating and you're opening my eyes to different perspectives of this. the combination of acceptance that things are exactly as they should be and boundaries. You know, just because somebody is how they are does not mean that I need to not set up boundaries to protect myself or whatever from them. That's such a Serenity Prayer line. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't. Go ahead.

Brittany B: It's actually the masculine and the feminine combined. I would say like the feminine is the acceptance. The masculine is the boundary. I'm not saying male and female. I'm saying masculine and feminine energy. And both combined are absolutely critical. You can't have one and not the other and have health and wholeness.

Justin B.: That's very powerful. Thank you for sharing that.

Brittany B: So what you're just talking about is values. Like, cause I value cleanliness. We know we learned and I value order. And so where those things aren't, I choose not to be. And so that's an act of self-respect because I know who I am and I know what my values are. And 12-step has helped me own those things and to realize, disappointedly most of the time, that sometimes those, my values aren't shared by others around me. And that runs the gamut.

I mean, politically, you know, I have very different values than other people around me. And I, I, I get to acknowledge that, wow, they think differently. They see this issue very differently than I do. Yeah. And their safety to be, to be protected. And so I make my decisions accordingly to protect what is my own, because those are my values. Yeah.

Justin B.: Thank you for bringing values into this. I think that's powerful. How do you go about making boundaries to protect yourself, to keep yourself safe without outcasting others, without saying, hey, that's somebody that I just will not even Acknowledge they're alive?

Brittany B: I think hopefully recognizing like that, I believe that we're all children of a loving Heavenly Father. And so that would inform the way that I interact with others. So I think if I'm being honest, I'm, I'm human. I think I, the way I would handle that or try to is to be reactive, not to, to be responsive, not reactive. And so I, for example, like something had happened the other day where I was like, oh, that person's driving me crazy.

And I don't have to respond in that way. I can respond with love and kindness. So I had somebody who was not very kind to me the other day who responded in their anger, and it wasn't about me at all. And I thought, oh my word, that was so mean. And then I'm so mad. Like, why would you do that to me? Like, I'm a fighter, right? Come at me, you know? Bring it. Yeah. And, and I, and I didn't though, because I was like, that's not going to be helpful.

And I do love her. Even though she's a real pain in the butt, I really do love that person. I, I care about them as a child of God. I care about their experience. I hope the best for them. And what's helped me a lot is just to pray for people in those moments that I see very differently from. There's this prayer. My sister's a yoga teacher and she taught me this prayer. I don't know what the name of it is or anything, but it's like, may you have peace, may you have health, may you have Peace, health, and I can't remember, progress or something.

And so when I am interacting with somebody, even in my mind, that like I'm, I'm having angst with or anything, I pray a prayer for that person to remember, 'cause it reminds me that they're a child of God and it puts me again in my proper relationship to others and really to my God. I'm like acknowledging to God in that moment, this one's yours. This person over here, I'm thankfully they're not mine. I don't even like them.

And I don't want to respond. There's 2 parts of me. I can acknowledge both. One, I want to go at him with like claws. I'm so mad. And I don't have to choose to do that because I respect myself more than that.

Justin B.: Yeah, I, I may be annoyed. I may be angry. I may be totally opposed to whatever is being said, but I don't have to attack them.

Brittany B: Yeah, because I want to respond in a self-respecting I ultimately want to have self-respect because it'll, I can't have self-respect without respecting others. And so for me, that works.

Justin B.: Excellent. So before we start wrapping up, is there anything else in relation to step 3 that you were, that you want to make sure that we get out there that maybe we haven't touched on at this point?

Brittany B: Yes, actually. So the last part, so it says, made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him. So the as we understood him part is very interesting. One thing that's been made very clear to me is that God is discoverable, not inventable. That means it requires humility to discover him. It's prideful to invent one's own God. And I think the line between the two can be some kind of a little confusing.

Justin B.: So why don't you try and define that line a little bit? That can be a little bit confusing.

Brittany B: Well, I've been in meetings before where people were, it seemed to me, intent on creating their own God. This is what I want. This is what I need. This is what, you know, kind of a thing. And I, that is prideful and it's the antithesis of what this program is. It's, this is a program of discovery and it's a spiritual program and it requires humility to work. And relief to embrace. And inventing one's own God is, I guess, the perfect example of it is in the Bible, the story of the people who built the tower, the Tower of Babel.

That is exactly what they were doing, is they were saying they were the antithesis of a 12-step program. They were saying they were hyper-individualistic and they were saying, we got this and we don't need him. And the result of that was utter chaos. And that's still the result of it today. When people invent a higher power, it's utter chaos. I mean, it's as if you said, well, what, what sobriety looks like for me is, well, it's not, that's not a thing because then it's not a 12-step program.

Sobriety has to be clarified like Perfectly. Like, I'm— that's what I think. SAO has a good— they have a very great definition of sobriety. And when that's not clear, then one can invent one's own definition depending on what god they were inventing and what values they have and, and all of that. And that's very popular. It's very in vogue right now, politically, um, socially in the West. That's all the rage. And that, that is the Antithesis of a 12-step program.

Justin B.: Thank you for sharing that. And one thing that I love about that phrase, God as we understood him, it's in the past tense. How did I understand God yesterday? Well, this way, but I can continue to learn more and more today. And hopefully the God of my understanding from yesterday, today is a little bit— I understand a little bit more of what God is and God isn't bigger. but what I understand is more, and I can continue to grow in that several fronts.

Yeah, go ahead.

Brittany B: Yeah, I think it combines what you just described, combines humility and curiosity, and that is just beautiful. That is so beautiful.

Justin B.: Very good. Before we wrap up, typically ask a couple of questions of each one of our guests. The first one is what bit of advice or experience, strength, and hope do you have for the newcomer who's just now going, oh crud, I need to get into these meetings, I guess. What advice or experience, strength, and hope do you have for them? And then what do you have for somebody who's maybe been in program for a while and maybe thinking, I don't know if I want to stick around?

Brittany B: Well, I guess the one thing with a newcomer is that I described it one time, somebody who, who could have come to group but chose not to, or has chosen not to up to this point, who was in my life. And I described to her, I said, you know, if somebody punches you in the face, And they break your jaw, it's not your fault. And you don't have to get help for it either. You can live like that.

Or you can say, this really hurts and it wasn't my fault, and I am gonna go to the doctor and get the help that I need because I'm worth it. And that's what I think this program offers for people who have been betrayed. Because I think a lot of women feel angry that, like, why do I have to do anything with this? Well, I mean, you can be angry and that's understandable. And you can still get help and healing and peace.

Justin B.: Yeah. How about for the old timer?

Brittany B: Yeah, for the old timer. Oh man, I guess my thought is about the buffalo. I don't know if you've heard this. I don't even know for sure if this is true, but this is something we've talked about in our group is that I guess the buffalo is the only animal that runs into the storm instead of away from the storm. So I guess storm comes, animals run away, but then they're in the storm longer if they're running away from it and it's kind of chasing them.

Mm-hmm. And so this opportunity is an opportunity to face it because it is, it already is. There's the acceptance, right? It's there and I'm not running. I am turning around and I'm facing it with my hands open and It will wash over me and I don't have to be swallowed up in it either.

Justin B.: Beautiful. Thank you so much, Brittany. There are some really powerful things in this, in this conversation that we just had here that it's been helpful to me and it'll be very helpful to very many people who come in and hear these words. I'm, I'm positive of that. We'll just close this up like we do in many of our SAL meetings. Keep coming back. It works when I work it. So work it. You are worth it.

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