Q&A – Is relapse a part of recovery?

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families.

Tara McCausland: Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery podcast. I am one of your hosts, Tara McCausland, and I have here with me my wonderful co-host, Justin B. Good to see you, Justin.

Justin B.: Hey, Tara. Good to see you too. It's been a little bit. Glad to be back together.

Tara McCausland: Before we set off with this, I think, helpful Q&A, which I think people will be interested in hearing, just one announcement. We're excited about our upcoming SA Lifeline virtual conference. It will be held September 26th through the 28th. On those 3 days, we'll be covering unwanted sexual behavior, betrayal trauma, and healing families and couples. Just for your information, a couple of the breakout sessions that you may not have heard about yet in our announcement about this is one that I'm excited about will be with Rae Emerson.

And she'll be talking about Alone in the Aftermath: Healing from Betrayal When Your Relationship Doesn't Survive. So I know that there are a lot of people in this camp where the relationship doesn't survive and how they can move forward with integrity and, and hope and build a beautiful life for themselves despite the fact that their marriage has failed. Another interesting breakout that I think people will be eager to hear is on our family day with Jessica Idins.

And she'll be talking about after the disclosure, a guide towards family health. And I know, Justin, that one of the biggest questions that I often get asked is, what about the kids? What about the family and the fallout there? And so I think that that will be of great interest to a lot of lot of you. So we hope that you'll go to salifeline.org and register. There's scholarships available if you can't hack it financially. We want to make this possible for all people to join us.

We also want to shout out to our sponsors of the 2024 SA Lifeline Conference, Circles of Grace. We're so grateful for their support and grateful for the, the good work they are doing in helping heal individuals and families from the effects of betrayal trauma and sexual addiction.

Justin B.: Super cool. Thank you, Circles of Grace.

Tara McCausland: Okay, so for our Q&A today, we are talking about, is relapse a part of recovery? And Justin, what are your initial thoughts about that question?

Justin B.: You know, I've heard people talk about this, and I— most people that say relapse is part of recovery seem to be people who aren't sober. People that I've heard say things like that who have long-term sobriety say relapse is not part of recovery. Relapse is part of addiction. And that seems to be closer to what my take is on it. Although I recognize that in getting into recovery, relapse often happens until I am willing to be rigorously honest, until I'm ready and willing to give my will and my life over to the care of God, of my understanding.

Tara McCausland: Yeah, so I like that. So relapse isn't a part of recovery, but it's a part of addiction. We might draw your attention back to a previous episode that we did. It was a Q&A where we defined what a slip, a lapse, and a relapse is according to SA Lifeline and SAL 12-step. And so we might direct you to that Q&A because it's really important actually to know what we're talking about because some people have different ideas of what those terms mean.

But would you be able to paraphrase the difference between a lapse versus a relapse, Justin?

Justin B.: Yeah, according to the SAL 12-step definition, lapse is a choice to go outside of the definition of sobriety according to SAL. And for example, look at porn and/or masturbate and then share that immediately with sponsor, with the spouse, according to any boundaries that may be set up by the agreements with the spouse, and then get right back up on the path of recovery. and not lapse again, not have it be a pattern of, you know, every week or every 3 weeks or whatever that may be.

A relapse is crossing that boundary and lying about it and living a double life. That's not being in a recovery mindset. So that's how I would paraphrase it. Any, any additional thoughts on that, Tara?

Tara McCausland: Well, it seems to me then that the crux of it is whether or not we choose to be honest. So often we talk about how do you know if an addict is in recovery? They're honest, humble, and accountable, right? And so even in the case where there might be a lapse, which again, we're trying to avoid, and if people are lapsing on a regular basis, then something's wrong. We need to go back to the drawing board and see what bottom lines and boundaries are being crossed, what emotional issues aren't being addressed, et cetera.

But if people are willing to be honest, then they have not lost the recovery mindset. And that really is the hallmark, I believe, of recovery, is this rigorous honesty piece. In fact, while Jill Manning, who is a member of our advisory board, she says that rigorous honesty is the standard in healing work. And so if we expect to stay on the healing path, on that healing trajectory, Rigorous honesty must be our code, must be the standard.

Justin B.: Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, honesty, I think, is the, is the foundation of that. Along with that needs to be willingness and open-mindedness, you know, with the willingness to do whatever it takes. And I think if I'm being honest and, you know, reporting a lapse that happens every week for years on end, there's something that I'm not willing to do. I'm still holding back my will. I'm not open-minded to additional ways of looking at things.

And so in that, I think that that kind of mars the honesty. Yeah, I'm being honest with my, with my spouse about that I'm crossing these bottom lines again, over and over and over again. But I'm not being honest about what I'm willing to do because I'm probably saying, yeah, I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I'm probably not. Thoughts on that, Tara?

Tara McCausland: Oh, yeah. Well, certainly, again, if we see a pattern of lapse, then we're retaining our will in some form. We're not surrendering. We're not giving it to the God of our understanding. Right. So again, that, that's going to require deeper, deeper work if lapse is constantly something we're struggling with. Um, but I wanted to turn our attention briefly to the SAL book. On page 14, at the bottom, I think there's a helpful paragraph here. It says, any relapse, no matter how far apart— again, it says relapse— Is evidence that we have slipped into an unhealthy addiction mindset.

There's no relapse in a recovery mindset. From our own sad experience and the lives of our fellows, we are reminded of the high stakes in play of our progressive victory over lust. We may even white-knuckle sobriety for years, but unless we are consistently working our own recovery one day at a time, we will inevitably slump back into the well-worn. neural pathways of a self-absorbed addict mentality. Anything stand out to you there, Justin?

Justin B.: Well, there's a couple of things. And I think I'm going to jump to one that's a little bit less obvious, one that's really echoing in my head right now. But unless we are consistently working our own recovery one day at a time, we will inevitably slump back into the well-worn neural pathways of a self-absorbed addict mentality. What jumps out at me is, even in my recovery work, if I find what works, and I check those boxes, It can become routine.

I need to continue to well, step eleven says to improve my conscious contact with God. I need to continue to improve my recovery work. Oftentimes, my the temptation for me and for so many others that I work with is hmm. I've been sober for three months, six months, a year, five years, whatever it may be. And I'm doing these things every day, it becomes habit. It becomes almost second nature, and I'm not be not even thinking about it.

So it becomes less effective, and I need to do something different, more deeper. I need to go deeper and improve that, and I think that's really important on this. Now, going back to the more obvious part of this, any relapse, no matter how far apart, is evidence that we have slipped into an unhealthy addiction mindset. There is no relapse in a recovery mindset. If I let up on this spiritual program of action and rest. on my laurels, as it talks about in the Big Book, I'm headed for trouble.

Even if I am quote unquote sober, even if I am checking the boxes, I can't let up on this spiritual program of action and I need to continue to improve upon it. And that's my, that's my take on that. Any, any additional thoughts, Tara?

Tara McCausland: Something that stood out to me was that we may even white-knuckle sobriety for years. And actually, Stephen Croshaw, co-founder of SA Lifeline, he can speak to this very personally. He could be sober. White-knuckle sober for 3 years at a time. And then he might have some kind of issue crop up in his life, some type of a trigger, and it would throw him back into the addictive cycle. I recognize, even though I am not an addict, that the ditch is on either side and can easily be fallen into for someone who has dealt with addictive patterns in their lives.

especially over a long period of time. And so I'm curious, like, how would you define white-knuckle sobriety versus positive sobriety? Sometimes we talk about positive sobriety, and people may not know what that means.

Justin B.: You know, as you were sharing that, this— the imagery of a gymnast on the balance beam came into mind. I, as an addict, am like that gymnast on a balance beam. Now, at first, it's totally tenuous. White-knuckle is me just Doing the best I can to stay balanced. Living in recovery is practicing recovery so much and realizing that, guess what? Me as a gymnast, as an addict, I've got massive ropes and tethers. I'm not going to fall off if I rely on God who is holding those massive tethers.

But if I'm white-knuckling it and just focusing on, holy cow, I have to stay on this narrow thing, the ditch on either side, and I'm relying on myself to stay balanced. I'm going to fall off every time. And that's the white knuckle, is I have to do this no matter what. But when I go, you know what, hey God, you've got me tethered in here. I can do flips and twists and whatever you're guiding me to do, and I can stay on this beam.

It suddenly goes from being— I think it's 4 inches wide to being 4 feet wide, and I can do all sorts of cool things on that. And that's just the imagery that popped into my head as you asked that question. I hope it's helpful.

Tara McCausland: Yeah, well, I appreciate that imagery. And I might also say, if people are looking for a definition, I've heard it said that white-knuckle sobriety is what you're focusing on not doing, right? You're focusing on the behaviors you're not going to engage in versus positive sobriety, which is all the things you are doing, the healthy living pieces, the attending meetings weekly, calling your sponsor on a regular basis, doing some step study on your own time, connecting with the God of your understanding on a regular basis, these types of things that will keep you in a recovery mindset, right?

Yeah.

Justin B.: Yeah, I think that's really powerful. If I'm focusing all the time on what I don't want to do, or what is all around me, but I shouldn't be dwelling on, you know, if I catch a glimpse of something, and I just freak out about it, that's white knuckle. If I catch a glimpse of something that is potentially triggering, and I say, taking this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it, the line from the Serenity Prayer that we use, taking this whatever I consider to be immodestly dressed world as it is, not as I would have it, and giving it to God and moving on.

That's recovery. But if I go, oh, I can't believe I just saw that, and freak out about it, that's white knuckle. And I think that's another good way to define that.

Tara McCausland: Thank you. Well, on the other side of this, as we were considering relapse, is the experience of the partner, right? The one that's experiencing betrayal trauma. And I think that there's a lot of fear often for partners that relapse is going to be something that keeps cropping up because addiction is hard to shake. It can be years in the trenches of really working to, to change those neural pathways. And so I understand that fear. Again, talking about Dr.

Jill Manning, who is a member of our SA Lifeline Advisory Board, and who, by the way, is going to be speaking at the conference, she recently posted on Instagram Something about a relapse preparedness plan for betrayed partners, and I just wanted to share a little bit of this because I think that betrayed partners want tools for safety and don't want to expect relapse, but we want to be prepared for it. So this is what she said: While we cannot control whether someone will relapse, we can control the degree to which we are prepared if one should occur.

As a result, relapse preparedness plans are an empowering aspect of betrayal trauma healing work. To help partners of addicts be prepared, she said, I created created a relapse preparedness planning guide. And so she just talks a little bit about an acronym she uses to help partners prepare, which is looking at safety, at options, allies, and resources. So if you're interested in, in that, you can go to drjillmanning.com. We can even post a link in our show notes about that.

But I thought that was a great resource for partners because we want to be prepared. We don't want to expect it, but we want to be prepared. If relapse occurs.

Justin B.: Yeah, when you first proposed this to me, I kind of had a hesitation to it because the title that I understood was a relapse plan. And I was thinking, well, that's just like me expecting relapse to happen, my spouse saying, oh, this is going to happen, I may as well just, you know, draw something up so that I can draw lines and from the addict perspective and punish my husband for the relapse. Now I understand that boundaries are not set up that way if they are Even thought of that way, but from either side it becomes punitive.

But it's very important to set up boundaries. Very important so that if and when a boundary is crossed, there is expectations that are clear on both sides so that when a reaction happens, it can be understood, hey, this was what was laid out previously. I think it can be very helpful to have those boundaries in place and clearly defined. For, for all parties involved. One thing that my wife does that is extremely helpful, I think, and it's something that did not happen early in our addiction and recovery life, but is when a boundary is crossed by me, whether that be, you know, a black and white definition of sobriety, or whether it be other boundaries that are not black and white definition of sobriety.

When I come and I talk to her about you know, whatever it may be that I'm struggling with, her response has become, I love you. I'm not your sponsor. I'm not your higher power. Talk to them and figure out what you need to do there. And the first time she said that to me, it was like this— initially it was like a shot through the heart of, oh crud. And now it's more of a, you know what, she is in a very healthy place where what happens here is much less likely to affect her serenity and her connection with her higher power.

And I think that's been a really powerful Way of approaching things. Yeah.

Tara McCausland: Thank you. Well, maybe to wrap up, we recognize that this can be tricky. We again draw your attention back to that original Q&A talking about slip, lapse, and relapse. I think knowing how we define these things first is helpful and recognizing what a recovery mindset looks and feels like. And it really starts with this rigorous honesty piece and this willing heart. Thank you to our listeners for joining us on this Q&A, and we will catch you next time.

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