Step 9 – Healing: Whatever that May Look Like w/ Heather B

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families. Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery podcast.

Justin B.: I'm Justin B. I am the son of an all-powerful, perfectly loving God, and a recovering sex addict living in the one-day-at-a-time miracle of recovery. And I'm really grateful to be here today with one of my favorite people, Heather B. And I'm just grateful to sit down and talk about the steps of recovery. As many of you who are listening to this series know, we're covering one step of, uh, one of— we are covering each of the steps of recovery one at a time.

Heather and I will be talking specifically about Step 9, but we'll be doing a lot more than that. So Heather, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and why you find yourselves in the room of SAL 12-step?

Narrator: I've been in the rooms of recovery since July 3rd, 2006. I found myself in SAL. So I was in the other anon group before this. SAL I discovered during COVID because a couple reasons. I live in Washington, so a lot of the stuff closed down really quickly with COVID And I thought, oh, it'll just be a couple weeks, then my meeting will open back up. My husband had been trying to get me to go to SAL, but because it was his idea, I wasn't doing it.

Um, and because I'm stubborn like that, it went on longer, and I started to notice I was missing my meetings. And then I had a friend reach out to me whose husband had relapsed during, uh, COVID and was desperately seeking a meeting. And so I said, hey, there's this SAL meeting, we should try it together. So that's how I got in. My group never formed again. So I'm really grateful for SAL and that I found SAL.

And I love the Essanon book and the materials and those resonate with me. And so it was just easy to transition from my other 12-step to this 12-step because the 12-steps are pretty universal. So it wasn't hard. But that's what brought me to SAL.

Justin B.: And then what brought you into the rooms of the previous ANONs? Let's talk a little bit about that. Why do you find yourselves in 12-step rooms overall?

Narrator: So I found out July 3rd, 2006, that my husband was a sex addict. I didn't know that. We'd been married about 10 years. Once I found out, it wasn't like— it was like all these things, aha. Came on, all these lights came on. Oh, that explains this and that explains that. It was shocking. I didn't know what else to do, where else to go. I went to my pastor who eventually, after meeting with me a second time when I started losing it even more, sent me to an anon group and said, hey, this might be helpful for you.

And I was like, sweet. And so that's what sent me to the rooms. And I thought for sure they're going to tell me how to fix my husband and what I needed to do to fix all this and make this better. But I was shocked to go in and find out that no, the focus was about me, my recovery, what I needed to, what I could change, what I needed to change. And yeah, and it changed my life and I am grateful for the steps in my life and for the healing that I found in going to.

Justin B.: Yeah. So what were your initial thoughts when you went to your first meetings and realized this wasn't about fixing your husband, but it was about you, the things you could manage or control?

Narrator: I walked in thinking they're going to tell me how to fix my husband. Once I quickly realized that that was not the case in my meeting, figured that out pretty quick just from the readings alone, that it was a focus on me and my recovery and my relationship with God. As soon as I figured that out, I actually had no problem with that. It's interesting because the woman that was there with me, there was another new person there with me, and she struggled more with that idea.

And I actually didn't. I thought, okay, I can control me. And that was something that those women Really tried to help me understand was like, "You're you cannot control an addict. You cannot control this. You cannot cure it. You cannot change it. You didn't cause it," and helped me really just understand better what I did have control over. In that moment, I was like, "Okay, that actually makes sense," and I could see I had things that I definitely needed to change, things that I definitely needed to give to God and.

And control was my thing, especially after I found out I was living with an addict, went to straight control. But I was controlling before that. I just, it didn't, I didn't have a hard time with it. It rang true to me right away.

Justin B.: And did that realization that, hey, I can change some things about me, or I need to change some things about me, did that bring you peace in the long run as you walked the path? In recovery? Or did that sometimes frustrate you at all?

Narrator: I want to say it was amazing and peaceful, but it was frustrating at times. But I do remember thinking, I don't know, I felt like shifting the focus from my husband's addiction to me actually helped me not focus on him so much. If I could Shift the focus on what I could fix, what I could change, and especially my relationship with God. If I could better understand powerlessness, surrender—I don't know—that just that shift from it all being about Him to it being about me and what I had power to do—that felt so much more natural and almost relieving.

Like it took a huge burden off my shoulders. I'm not responsible for this other person, but I am responsible for. me. And that is something in my power. So for me, it was like a burden was lifted. And it really did help me just to focus. Now, I'm not saying it was like I was 100% all the time. There were times when I was like, hey, dude, you could really use this. Why don't you, you know, or he would bring up my steps to me.

He didn't work recovery for a while. It took him a while before he entered rooms of recovery. But he would like Hey, what does your 12 steps say about that? Or how is this reply to your step three? And I just remember being like, dude, what the crud? What about your step three? Where's your? But I can remember it was good to just focus back and be like, that's true. I can't control that. I I can't control you.

You're right. How does this apply step three? How do I trust in my higher power right now? How do I decide to turn my will over to him and to trust that right now and not put all my trust over here. So I found it helpful. But—

Justin B.: Thank you for sharing that, Heather. Tell me a little bit about how long it took after you entered the rooms until you got a sponsor and started actually working the steps.

Narrator: So I, I am a slow learner, but I went into the rooms and I was like, I don't need a sponsor. I can do this myself. I don't need that. I can do this all by myself. And I did. I started working steps 1 and 2 and 3. I got to step 4, and I remember trying to do step 4 on my own. And so I'm guessing it was a good year, possibly a year and a half before I finally realized I could not do this on my own.

I I started writing my step forward. It didn't make sense. And I was like, what do I do with all this crap now? I was so stuck. And I realized God really helped me see, okay, you're being stubborn and you need to do it. You need a sponsor. This is the only way. You cannot create your own way. It's my way, not your way. So I had to let go of that control. And that was a huge, huge step for me.

I thought I knew who my sponsor was going to be. There was a woman in my group and I loved her and I thought, she, she's going to be my sponsor. And every time I walked up to her, because I was going to an in-person group where we were living at that time, every time I walked up to her, I couldn't remember her name. It would just leave me. And I would be like, hey, you, how you doing?

And I remember thinking, if I can't say her name, how am I going to ask her to be my sponsor? I finally realized I probably needed to pray about it. God really wanted me to pray and ask him. Who my sponsor should be? So I did that, and the name that kept coming to me was a woman in my group that I actually did not because of anything. It was all because of dumb reasons. It was just dumb things that I maybe I was jealous.

I know I was jealous of her. I would compare myself to her all the time, and she was better than me. And so I was like, "No, this is not who my sponsor should be." And but her name just kept coming to me, coming to me. Anyway, finally. So I walked up to her and I was like, hey, would you be willing to be my sponsor? And she's like, and, and then I could remember that other lady's name.

It was so funny. Immediately it was like that other lady's name just kept coming to my mind. I could totally talk to her, no problem, after that. So I knew in that moment it was God telling me, no, no, this is who your sponsor is. And really, truly, she was, she was the best sponsor I could have had for me. Because she actually related a lot more to me than I realized. She related a lot more to my walk than I could have ever dreamed or knew, and from group.

And so, um, I actually love her, still love her, but it was exactly who I needed, and God knew that. So thank you for sharing that.

Justin B.: Such a cool story of how you ended up with the sponsor that you ended up with, and Wasn't how you thought it would look, and then, but it's turned out perfect for you. Thank you for sharing that. You said you did steps 1, 2, 3 on your own. You got to step 4 and you started getting bogged down by that. What I want to do is we're going to read the steps of recovery through step 9, which we're going to talk about so that anybody who's on here listening for the first time may go, I don't know what that means.

Steps 1, 2, 3, and 4. I'm going to read them through and we'll stop on step 9. And then we'll start talking a little bit about step 9. We'll lead into that a little bit more. The 12 steps of SAL. 1. We admitted we were powerless over sexual addiction, that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6, we're entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. 7, humbly asked him to remove our shortcomings. 8, made a list of all persons we had harmed and became willing to make amends to them all. And step 9, where we will be for much of this conversation, is made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

Before we dive in on step 9, Heather, tell me a little bit about your walk through the steps once you got that sponsor. Did it change? Did it look different? Did you redo steps once through 3, or did your sponsor say, uh, let's just move on from where you're at?

Narrator: Yeah, no, it completely changed everything. My sponsor did make me go back, which rightfully, and I'm grateful that she did because she really helped me know steps 1, 2, 3 took me a little while. She helped me see my concept of God was off. She would give me things to do or would say things that really, and when I would do the questions and different things like We would just talk about it and she, and I realized, whoa, there's more I need to learn.

She had me start over. And so I started back at Step 1, 2, 3, 4. Took me some time. 5, 6, 7 were all with her. The whole entire process was with one sponsor. She stayed with me through the whole thing. I just kept working with her and it was hard, especially Step 4, super hard. She was great. She was my cheerleader reminding me. To put God at my center, to go back to God, especially when I was struggling with step 4. I'm so grateful for her.

Justin B.: Thanks for sharing that. Now, when I was looking for people to fill in on these steps, you jumped right out and you said, I want step 9. And step 9 is one of those things. There's a couple of steps where many people freeze and just stop. One is Step 4, and the other one is Step 9. So why were you so excited to say, oh, me, pick me for Step 9?

Narrator: I feel like my most God-led— there are just too many miracles for me to deny that God was in my Step 9. Like, he was. And guided my Step 9. My Step 9, to me, I still look back if I am struggling in my life and I start thinking about, God, is this going to work out? How's this going to work? Is God going to— it— I often go back to my Step 9 and go, no, don't doubt this. Remember Step 9?

Remember what happened in Step 9? There's no way. And so I think that's the cool part about Step 4. I feel like 4 and 5, 5, sometimes people freeze on too, because they get through 4, but then they don't want to do 5. They don't, they're like, I can't tell anyone about this. But those being the hardest, and 9, I feel like 8 and 9, same thing, because I had to put so much trust in God and so much, almost like complete reliance on the outcome of what was going to happen.

Yeah. That those were the most powerful, if that makes sense. Like step 5, reading that step 4 to somebody, it— you don't have— I don't have control over what they're gonna think, what they're gonna say. Like, it's totally in God's lane. Giving it to God, um, too, as well, you know, praying, giving that— it's that full— it's that full surrender to the process, I feel like. And so step 9, Much the same. It's that full surrender to the process.

And there's— I have no control over the outcome of how people were going to react, what people were going to say, what people were going to do, whether or not they were going to blow up at me. It was full surrender.

Justin B.: And I love how you took 4 and 5 and related them to 8 and 9. 4, you write it all down, and then you talk to somebody about it with no control over what they're going to think or say about you. When you did step 5 with your sponsor, did your sponsor come back and you and say, dude, you are a sicko, or anything like that? Make you feel like you were rejected at all?

Narrator: The amazing thing about step 5 was like, as I read, and now since I've done step 5 with people, there is no judgment. First of all, it's not my path. Second of all, some of the things I've done too, and I can relate. I'm like, oh, I can totally relate to that. Or I would have totally done that too. And three, it's just listening to someone's story. There's no judgment in it. You're just there to be the vessel to listen.

I felt amazing after my step five. Like I was like born again. Like I was like I would have taken on the world. I remember right after my step five, I just remember feeling like someone knew everything about me. And it's a good reflection of God. It was like, here's this tangible person who knew everything about me now, but still liked me, still loved me, still believed in me. If she could do that, then God could even do that, like 100 times more.

Yeah.

Justin B.: Yeah. Now let's jump to the 8 and 9 thought of that. In step 8, we make a list of people and become willing to make amends to them. And then step 9 is putting that into action. And like you said, you have no control over what's coming back at you. There are situations where it does not turn out well when doing a step 9. But tell me a little bit about your general experience with that, and then we'll get into some specifics after this.

But tell me your general experience of making amends with people.

Narrator: Overall, I would say, I wouldn't say it was like my step 5. Where it was like afterwards, I was like, but there was some relief. I had finally made amends on that. It's like unloading a backpack of rocks or whatever you wanna call it. I, it was like, okay, I've made amends for that. I, it's moving forward. It was that moving forward moment. And for the most part, I would say it went well. There were good experiences, but there are also bad, hard experiences.

Bad experiences, but again, it was that full surrender. It was really truly having to be like, "Hey God, I did what I could, and now I've got to be okay with where it lands," and allowing that person space to not accept or to reject. Or whatever, but again, that control—like it's so good for me not to be able to control that outcome, to try to people please my way through it, or try to get someone to force them to take my amends.

That was one of the powerful things about it: was having to just let go the outcome, and that was good practice for working my steps. Now, like step 10, 11, and 12, I feel like that really gave me practice of letting go and letting God do his thing.

Justin B.: I want to get to that in 10, 11, and 12 here in a few minutes, but I'd like to sit on step 9 here for just a minute. You said there were some hard situations. Let's start with a hard one and share as much detail as you want, but you don't have to identify anybody. What was a hard one where you went in with hopes of A different result than what you returned with?

Narrator: Yeah, I can think of 3 that come to mind. One of them, I went to a person on my list and started doing my apology. That person kept saying, no, no, you don't need to apologize for that. No, no, no, you don't need to apologize for that. I kept saying, let me just say my piece. Like, I wasn't even going into detail. Because that was something my sponsor was like, don't go into detail. Every time I tried to go to start to make amends, it was like, no, no, no, no, you don't need to apologize.

And that was really hard for me because I felt like this person wasn't giving me permission to make amends. It was like they didn't want me to make amends for whatever reason. I don't know. But every time I started to speak again, it was no, no, no, no. I just need to get seriously. It's a couple sentences long, and then I'll be done. But every time, no, no, no. And so that was really hard. That was frustrating and a good lesson in when someone's trying to make amends or say they're sorry, letting somebody do that.

Now whether or not they don't need to, I kept saying that you don't have to accept my amends because that I didn't want them to feel that way. But for whatever reason, they just did not want me to say it. It was totally off the table. We're not going to talk about this. And that was really hard. That was really hard. I don't remember anything. You don't need to remember it. I remember, and I need to apologize.

Yeah, that one was hard. Another one that was very difficult for me was one of my parents. I knew I needed to make amends. And it was that one was really interesting because God did guide me to write a letter. And at the time, I thought I'm chickening out because that was a big thing with my sponsor. Like, can't chicken out. This is someone you can talk to. You shouldn't be just writing a letter. And every time I prayed about it, it just kept coming back letter, letter.

And I talked with my sponsor about it, and she's, you know what? If it's coming back letter, let's do letter and see what happens. And then. We'll move from there. So I did a letter. I wrote it all out. And I got a letter back, which was very surprising. But the letter back was horrible. I started to read it. And it was a lecture. As I started reading it, God said to me, you don't have to read this.

Don't have to pick this up. Like, you did your part. Wow. You don't have to pick up the rest. And I knew in that moment God had saved me from that moment, because had I done it in person, I would've gotten that lecture without any barrier. And so instead, God gave me that barrier, which I was super grateful for. I didn't read it. I honestly just threw the letter away and moved on. And again, couldn't control like how that person took my amends, but I, but I couldn't do anything about it.

There was nothing I could do to change the result. And one other one I did wrong. I knew how I was supposed to do it and I chickened out and I didn't do it the way God wanted me to. Hmm. And that person did not take my amends well. And I remember in the moment regretting, I suddenly was like, oh my gosh, why didn't I do what God had told me to do? I needed to do exactly how he had told me to do it.

And in that moment, that person was ticked. It was like total change of mood and moment. And I knew, I knew. I knew I'd done it wrong to this day. Like, sometimes I regret it. I'm like, if I could go back, I would have— no, no, do it this way. Do it the way God had intended you to do it. Because I chickened out. I last minute changed it, and it totally blew up in my face.

And that was a good lesson for me in my Step 9. The way God tells me to do it is the way— not the way I think it needs to be done, or allow fear to get in the way. Because that amends— I made it, and I did the best I could, and I know God was like, hey, it's done. You tried, but it could have gone if you would just listen to me. And so it was one of those lessons of a result of, ooh, that went poorly.

And it was my deal that it went poorly because I didn't listen to what God had told me to do. And that was a good lesson too.

Justin B.: Thank you for sharing those 3 very good examples. And I think those are things that I'm learning from. And I think a lot of people will learn from. Now talk about an example or two where you went in and it just turned out miraculously way better than you ever imagined it could have. Do you have any of those experiences?

Narrator: Yeah. And I can think of 3. I don't know why 3 just keeps going in my head. So one of them was, so God let me start with my best friend since 3rd grade. He let me start gentle. So kind to me. And I just remember going in, I told her, I'm here to make amends. I just started talking and telling her that I'm so sorry and I'm making amends for some things. And she was so kind, as she always was to me anyway.

But it was such a great beginning. I just felt if God could say exactly what he would say to me after reading my stuff, 4 and 5 is what she said. She was like, I love you. You're great. I've never— like, it was all these kind things. And I knew that. I knew going into it, that was probably what was going to happen. Yeah. Hearing it after that was a reminder to me that, yes, I've done hard things or things that have harmed people, but God could make it okay.

And that other parts of me had healed that with her. I don't know. I had other things that I Not that I am perfect or that I'm like somehow made up for the things I did, but that outweighed for her, like all the other good things about me, it way outweighed the bad or the things that I had done. And so I don't know, it was just so good. She was so kind and just so gracious.

And she knew what I was doing because I had told her. What I was doing, and so she was just super gracious about the experience. So that was one. Another one was with two family members. That one was really fascinating because that one was really scary. That one so scary, and I knew I had to do it in person. I knew I could not do a letter, and it was two people, two family members, same household.

I was supposed to call. Them and set up an appointment, like a hey, can I come over and do this thing with them? And I just could not pick up the phone. I was such a chicken. I was like, I can't do this. This is so weird. They're gonna think I'm weird if I'm calling them and be like, hey, can I come over? I just want to take five minutes of your time. I just need to sit down with both of you really quick.

No biggie. And it was so funny because my phone rang and I answered it, and it was this family member. They said to me. I got your message. And I was like, this is not a family member I would normally call. This is not a family member that we had that kind of relationship. And I was like, no, I didn't call you.

Justin B.: I was like—

Narrator: It was like, God, it's like— You're not going to do it? Here, I'll do it for you. And in that moment, I was like, but I was going to call you, and I was going to be leaving you a message. I'm wondering if I could come over. And meet with you two and talk just for 5 minutes, nothing. And this was family members I definitely strained, definitely harmed. Harm had been done both ways, both strained both ways.

I can still remember this person said, I don't think, I don't think my partner's going to want to do that. And I said, I don't know. He might be intrigued and want me to come. And she was like, okay, I'll talk to him and I'll call you back. I was like, sweet. So next day she calls me and she's, hey Heather, I talked with my partner and it's funny, he said the exact words you said. He said, "I'm intrigued.

I want her to come." I was like, "Oh my gosh! This is so God. This is so God. I cannot deny any of this." I scheduled the appointment, went, got there. I wrote out a lot of my amends so that I would stick to what I needed to, especially in those ones that really made me nervous. This was one that really was making me nervous, and I had the thought, "Leave the paper," and I was like.

Okay, because I had already had that other experience in the paper. Hey, and that scared me. Oh my gosh, that scared me so bad. I think I was sweating. I was just so nervous. I went up to the door and knocked, and they let me in in that little fancy only area where people who visit come, because that's where our relationship was at that time. And I came in and I sat down, and I could tell That her partner was ready.

Let's go. Let's let's battle. Be ready to have this fight with me, and I was like, this is good. This is gonna go so bad. And so I had said a prayer around the core. I just started praying, and I just started talking, and I was like, hey, I'm really sorry. I just started saying the things again, just generals. What I had done. How sorry I was that I had created what our relationship was at this point.

And it was so crazy because as I was talking, I watched this person who was ready for a fight slowly start to change, soften. Like the fight, like everything— oh, and it's okay. We're family. It's okay. We're family. Family does this. This is good that we're having this con— like, it was crazy. And it literally lasted 10 minutes max. And I left there. I was already crying when I was— because I was so scared. But then when I got my car, I totally started crying.

I started sobbing because I was like, oh my gosh, God, thank you. Totally in it. And it changed everything, that relationship. And it's been so interesting because that's the relationship That I feel like the enemy has attacked the most. There has been more and more times where I've had to go back and be like, hey, I think I need to make amends to you. And because I know the enemy does not want that relationship to be— I'm always going back and like making sure we're not best friends.

We're not going on vacation together or hanging out all the time or anything, but we're in a place where we can be honest with each other. And we have that open, a better relationship than I can say with any other family members that I have. That's so great. And, and it's all because of that moment with that person, with those 2. It was so amazing. And then the 3rd one was the amends to myself. And this one's gonna date me, so let's make me old at this point.

But my, I was in counseling at the time when I was doing A lot of my step work, especially when I got to step 4, that's when I really needed some counseling. My counselor was helping me with my steps 4 and 5. He was very familiar with the steps and working steps. And so he was helping me a lot with my steps 4 and 5, and then doing my amends. And the amends that he wanted me to do, right on, he's like, you, you've gotta forgive you.

And a lot of the issues that I felt like had put me in the place that I was in that moment started at 15. Yeah. I did not like 15-year-old me. 15-year-old Heather was the worst person ever. Could have been— I just thought she was stupid. I thought all these things. And so he was like, okay, you're gonna write a letter to 15-year-old Heather. And so I did. I wrote a letter. Oh, I wrote a letter. And he— I brought it to him because that was my homework.

I brought it, read it. He was like, no, this is not the letter. Because I wrote a very angry letter. I can't imagine. Very angry. Just very much a lecture, like a mom talking to a 15-year-old, not And he's like, nope, try again. And I was like, I can't, I cannot let this go. I can't let go of the anger that I have. I just am so mad at 15-year-old Heather. And I'm in the car one day because I was praying, I was talking this out with God.

My sponsor had me working on it, my counselor had me working on it, and I just felt so stuck. And I Was praying and asking God to help me, help me. And Taylor Swift had written a song called Fifteen at the time. It was brand new. I had never heard it. And it came on the radio. That's how old I am. And the words to the song, you know, the chorus part is, when you're 15 and somebody tells you they love you, you're gonna believe them.

Because when you're 15, it just talks about when you're 15, this is what this is all because you're only 15. And I started crying. And in that moment, I realized, oh my gosh, I was only 15. Like, and I was able to write a completely different letter after that. And I was able to make amends. I can accept my 15-year-old me. Before, I would have totally rejected her, not even acknowledged her presence. I don't even know that person. But now she's part of me.

She's part of my story. She's part of who I am. She's part of who went through this walk. And she was only 15. And it's okay. And God loved her and I love her. And if I could hold her now, I would tell her, you're only 15. So those are my examples with that.

Justin B.: And those are powerful examples. Thank you for sharing those, Heather. I really appreciate it. So with Step 9, it's a, it can be a big hurdle for, I'm just gonna throw myself in the shoes of a betrayed person. I was thrown into this room because of someone else's arm to me? Why do I need to make amends? Why do I have to do these things? It was that person that brought me in here. Tell me how you deal with that type of thought process that I definitely would have and be tempted to carry with me.

Narrator: So I've heard that. I've heard that from many women, especially early in the rooms. And I'm always like, no, no, don't focus on 9. You're on 1. Don't even worry about 9. You're on 1. And recognizing we're all human. As much as I don't want to admit I've caused harm, I've caused harm because I'm human. I make mistakes. Some of them not intentionally, some of them very much intentionally, especially with the 2 family members, the partner and his wife. It was definitely a back and forth.

Like we were Pain-ponging. I'm gonna hurt you. Now you can hurt me. Now I'm gonna hurt you. You hurt me. This back and forth, and it's getting caught in that cycle. And I recognize that that harm harms me, that doing step 9 wasn't necessarily about other people. It was about me being able to Be accountable and be able to recognize I have caused harm. And I am sorry for that harm. And I'm trying to change and do better.

And that's not to say I still cause harm. I'm still living steps 10, 11, and 12, my maintenance steps. There are still times where I need to apologize. I have to go back and apologize. But if anything, step nine and practicing that with lots of different people has made it so much easier for me to go back and apologize. A great example of this is with my son. My son and I, we would go at it, especially when he hit about ten, eleven, twelve.

We would just boom go at it, and. And it was that control. I wanted control. He wanted control. And he was young when I started. He wasn't that young, but he was younger. He was like 7, I think, when I found out about my husband. I'd had some time and I was working my steps and I'd had some practice. And I started making amends with him when we would go at it verbally, boom, boom, like getting upset with each other.

Yeah. And I would go back and I would apologize for my part as his mom. Hey, I shouldn't have yelled at you, even though he was yelling at me, that I should not have yelled at you, no matter how you were. I would go back and I would make that amends. And I had gotten that practice. And that changed our relationship. Because he started coming back and he started saying, "I'm sorry too. I shouldn't have XYZ." And that, and that just really put us in a better place of communication with each other because again, humans are messy.

I, I'm always reminding myself of that. Humans are messy. I have so much emotion behind things sometimes. or I have my own shark music or my own trigger or whatever. And it's acknowledging that moment and saying, hey, I'm really sorry that's how that came out. I want to do better, and I'm trying. Just know. Yeah. And, and so I really do feel like it's just a human thing, being able to restore those things is a human— it's very much a part of being human and having relationship and communication.

It's important to restore that. Therefore, I don't have to ever make amends. That doesn't equate to me staying in that victim place and saying forever, hey, I was a victim, therefore I get to hurt and do whatever I want to others. Doesn't jive with me. And it doesn't does not bring me happy. That doesn't bring me connection to people. That isolates me even more. Like, it's that same cycle. So I just don't— I just have found for me that living Step 9 and doing the amends has healed me and my relationships and my communication.

Justin B.: Yeah. I want to ask another tricky question. So how do you go about making amends with the person that brought you into these rooms, that betrayed you, that drove you into the ground with a hammer over and over again? How do you go about that process in that situation? This can be from a betrayed person to their spouse, or maybe from an addict to the person who, a person who may have molested, abused them as a child, that they can go back and say, that's where This all started on my end.

How do we make amends with those types of people?

Narrator: So I guess I see 2 different sides of this. If I'm talking about someone who's abusive, someone who's harmed in that way where it's crossed major boundaries like sexual abuse, physical abuse, emotional abuse, those kinds of things. For me, I had those experiences in my— that there was someone on my step 9 that I actually had convinced myself I needed to make amends to because I had allowed all of it to happen and these things. And my counselor very graciously— Yeah.

showed me and helped me recognize that I needed to forgive this person, seek understanding. And I do now see this person— it wasn't my spouse, so it's a lot easier because this person's not in my life— but I was able to see that person as a sick person, not a bad person, but a sick person who, who was also harmed. I can see that pattern in that person's life, how he was harmed and then he harmed me.

It was going to be this continual thing if I chose to stay in that. I didn't, fortunately for myself. I have been able to forgive, but I also don't have to allow that person in my life either. Like, I can have a boundary. So there's a boundary there because that person isn't safe. And I've had to have that boundary. So for some people, that may be the case. I like to say, no matter what, we heal through these steps, whether that means the marriage dies or the marriage lives, because even a marriage dying can be healing.

If that marriage needs to end, that might be their path. Whereas other people's path is their marriage heals. There's no difference. Often in SAL, I feel like women will be like, I'm divorced, so I don't really belong. Or I'm still married and I feel bad that I'm still— it's no, no, that's not— you're healing. And wherever your healing journey ends up and it looks like is okay. Whether your marriage heals or your marriage ends, there's healing involved and you're moving into a different place.

And so for some, that is the boundary. I had to end this, or my husband ended this. And so now I've got to heal and move forward. I know that healing and that forgiveness can happen. And then there's, I'm still married to my spouse. I'm still with my addict. He's changing. He's working steps. I see his changes. I see those things. Now, that wasn't the case in the beginning. And so it was a constant, I have to forgive.

I have to forgive. I have to forgive. Boundaries, boundaries. Because I can forgive. Forgiveness is— that was one thing my pastor told me right away. You can forgive, but you don't have to trust. And that was huge. And so forgiveness can come. I'm not saying it has to come overnight, it has to come like tomorrow, or there's a timeline on it, but it can come. And I found for me that, again, My husband's a different person, and that's not to say that shark music or triggers don't pop up where he says something or does something that suddenly it's like, oh my gosh, he's that person again.

But I can talk myself through that and recognize, okay, he's not that same person. This is what's being triggered inside, or this is what's happening, or he's in addict brain, and this is why it's triggering whatever. It's giving that understanding. I don't even know if I'm answering the question now at this point. But I do feel like forgiveness is possible. It is necessary for me so I can be healed. But it's also something I can only do with God.

I guess that's the answer. I can only do it with God. I can't. Do it without him. And, and I can honestly say that my forgiveness path and my journey against M9 was all God-led. And God has helped me heal, has helped me move to a place of understanding sick people, not bad people. And boundaries, learning boundaries.

Justin B.: Thank you for sharing that. And you did answer the question and then you expounded on it to make it even bigger than what the question was, which is great. Thank you so much for that, Heather. As we start to wrap up this conversation, before I go into the next questions here, is there anything else on Step 9 that you really want to, that you feel like is on your heart that you want to express and share?

Narrator: I guess the biggest thing that I love about Step 9 is the individuality of Step 9, that there is no— it's totally God-led. Like I said, it's that total surrender process. It even says in the book, it says each person will require a different approach. Yeah. That there's not just one size fits all for step 9. This is what step 9 needs to look like when you go and make amends. It is a different approach for each person. Like with my kids, it was living amends.

I didn't go to them. I go through them throughout their life now as I have adult children. I'm sorry. Like when they bring up, remember when you did this to me? I'm sorry. I'm a different person. I'm really sorry. It's more that living amends where I'm able to show them I'm trying to become a different mom. I'm trying to become better. I had a friend who passed away. That looked different too, my amends, because she's not around.

I can't call her up and be like, hey, I'm really sorry. I was a cruddy friend, whatever. And so I had to figure out something else. And that was service, doing service. My hair finally grew long enough that I could donate it. I remember that was huge. Because that's what I wanted to do to make amends. And I had asked God, please, this is what I want to do, because she'd had cancer. And I wanted to donate my hair and God made my hair grow long enough finally.

And it was just like, okay, like, that was my amends to her. And so every amends is going to look different. It's not this cookie cutter, one size fits all. Everyone's amends and healing path is going to look different. Yeah. Because we're all different and we're all on this journey together and we're all on a different trajectory and, but we're all going the same place, right? We're all headed toward a higher power and just trying to focus on him.

And if I'm struggling to forgive, because I have people in my life that I still struggle, that I've made amends with, but that comes back up because I still have to interact with people and humans are messy. It's that reminder of, hey, I can move on and I can try again and I can give this to God and we can move again. It's really interesting because recently my husband was telling me his sponsor said with step 9 that he doesn't ever bring up What the person said, or if I truly forgive, then I don't bring up what happened.

I don't bring it up, and that has been really powerful for me, giving me a whole other perspective on step nine because I will bring up. I will bring up everything that so and so ever did to me, especially family members. And and his sponsor's example was his boss. His boss had done this horrible thing, and then. later he was with a coworker and the coworkers, they're talking about this boss and he could have easily started participating because that would have been me participating in that.

Oh yeah, you know what he did to me once? And he didn't. He let it go because that was the whole thing was I let it go and I'm not gonna say it out loud to someone else. And it would have been so easy. And so that's like my new level. I'm trying. To be more like that, where because it is the enemy is so good at bringing or my own triggers bringing up past stuff throws it right back at me, and that I'm not saying I'm bad.

I'm again human, but it is my in my power to decide. It's that again make direct mends amends to people. It's my choice. It's I need to be willing, and I need to. I need to let it go and let God and try again. Every day is a new day.

Justin B.: Thank you for bringing those things up. Very powerful. All right. So a couple of final questions before we wrap this up. One, the tagline of SAL is recovering individuals, healing families. How has that been manifested in your life? Those recovering the individual and healing of the family?

Narrator: So I would say in my own personal journey, that's how I see the journey went. I'm unusual in that when I started going to recovery meetings, my spouse chose not to go. He was like, I'm not an addict. I'm good. And my pastor was like, yeah, you can't convince him. He's— You can't make him go. And I was like, dang it. So I started going and I did that. I did that. I walked that walk for 8 years.

It was about healing the individual. It was about me. It wasn't about anybody else. And then when he chose to join, he started his own recovery. And with my son, like, just living recovery healed my relationship with my son. Like, it just has this natural outflow to family, whether that's your husband ends up leaving because He chooses to, or you choose, like, it's just the marriage is dead, or he's just not choosing the light and you're, you can choose the light, whatever.

Um, there's still healing in that. There's still healing in the family. You're healing the family by healing myself. Like, it's just that natural outflow. If I am light and I am attracting light, then I'm gonna attract that healing into my life. And so it's gonna just naturally, I don't know, that's just me. I feel like it naturally just flows into the family and whatever that needs to look like. You can still have healing if your family doesn't look like what you thought it was gonna look like.

You can still have that, that healing happening. And that's something I'm a big believer in is Healing families. I think healing myself, and then it's just that natural outflow. Then the family heals because I'm healing. Light attracts light. That's not to say all my kids are like big well steppers. Not saying my family's perfect now, but it just there. I want peace. I want peace in my family. My family has peace because I want to create that for myself.

And so I tend to bring that, attract that. I don't know if that makes any sense.

Justin B.: I've seen the same pattern in my own life, in my own family, and in the families of many that I work with, that when the individual starts recovering and starts practicing these principles in everything they do and starts really trying to apply the principles of recovery in their lives, healing happens. And like you said, that healing sometimes looks like a marriage being reborn and a family being rebuilt from the ashes. And sometimes it means that burned ash needs to move on so that it can flourish somewhere else.

And I need to move on so I can flourish somewhere else. Whatever that looks like, that healing happens as the individual recovers. And I thank you. 2 final questions. From your experience and observations and advice, although we don't give advice here in the rooms of 12 steps, do you have for the newcomer who has either just found out about a loved one's addiction or is recognizing the powerlessness and unmanageability of their own lives in addiction coming into these rooms?

What do you have to say to them? And what do you have to say to somebody who's been here for since 2006?

Narrator: To the newcomer, keep coming. The emotional roller coaster that you are on is totally normal. It will get better with time and with work, and that work is the steps. Right now, it feels horrible and awful and alone and isolating, and everything, at least for me, felt like it was falling apart. But I can truly say I have joy. I have happy, happy days. I can laugh. I like to laugh. And and I know that can be off-putting in groups sometimes for people, especially with me because I'll start laughing about something.

When I can remember thinking that how can you? You can't laugh. I live with an enemy. You know what they've done to me? With the pain, there's the other side eventually. It just takes time. And know you're not alone. And 12 steps isn't for everyone. I'm the first to admit that. As much as I love the 12 steps, I would love for it to be for everyone. I get that it's not. But I just keep coming back, keep trying.

Change the words if you have to, if you're offended. The way I was not offended by the way this book was written. But if you don't like some of the way the words are written or feel like this is not my problem, change it. I've worked with sponsees that I'm like, put control in there if you want to put— I'm powerless over control in my life. I want to control every— whatever you need to change, do it.

I have found so much healing In the 12 steps. And I would not trade my last 18 years of recovery or my first 10 years of not knowing and living with an addict. Hands down, I wouldn't trade my 18 years for anything.

Justin B.: Now, how about for the old-timer?

Narrator: For the old-timer, don't think you, you've arrived. Good. That is something I've fallen victim to a few times where I'm like, oh yeah, I got this. Good. I, I know how this works. And I know I've always got more to learn. Like, I can learn from everyone in the rooms, the newcomer to the old timer, to everyone in between. Never think you don't belong. Again, I feel like often I hear, I'm not married now, I'm divorced, or I'm still with my husband.

So that's awkward for my group. No, you're right where you need to be. Because again, everyone's healing is going to look different. It's okay. It doesn't mean you're not healed. It doesn't mean the person who's staying with their spouse isn't healed. It doesn't mean the person who divorced their spouse Didn't heal. Their marriage healed the way it needed to heal. Everyone's marriage, everyone's relationship's going to heal the way it needs to heal. We're all just trying to figure out what that looks like and just supporting and loving each other where we are.

But again, not thinking, I know this, I got this, I've arrived. I already know all this. 'Cause I don't.

Justin B.: Awesome. Thank you so much, Heather, for your willingness to share your experience, strength, and hope as it pertains to, well, your walk in recovery and especially about Step 9. I really appreciate it. I hope that many others feel a ray of light coming in of hope. Let's close this out as we do in many of our 12-step rooms at the end with, keep coming back. It works when I work it. So work it. You are worth it.

Narrator: Thanks for joining us. We invite you to subscribe to this podcast so that you don't miss new episodes. And while you're at it, will you please leave us a 5-star rating and review to help us spread the good news that healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma is possible? We invite individuals who are struggling to join our virtual or in-person trauma-sensitive 12-step meetings. Meeting times and locations can be found at sal12step.org. You can find quality education at salifeline.org, and we hope that you will follow us on Instagram and Facebook.

SA Lifeline is a 501 nonprofit organization, and we welcome donations. SA Lifeline— come heal with us.