Brace for Impact: Why Qualified Therapy is Vital in Recovery w/ Josh Walpole

Narrator: This is Pathway to Recovery, an SA Lifeline Foundation podcast featuring hosts Tara McCausland, who is the SA Lifeline Executive Director, and Justin B., a sex addict living in long-term recovery. We have conversations with experts and individuals who understand the pathway to healing from sexual addiction and betrayal trauma because we believe that recovering individuals leads to the healing of families. Welcome to the Pathway to Recovery Podcast.

Justin B.: My name is Justin B. I am a son of an all-powerful and all-loving God and a recovering sex addict in recovery, gratefully sober since June 19th, 2015, and every day is a miracle. I'm grateful to be one of the hosts of the Pathway to Recovery Podcast today. Before we get started in with our conversation with Josh, who is going to introduce himself here in a minute, and we'll get to know him and a little bit more about him and what the importance of qualified therapy is in the recovery puzzle of SAL.

I want to announce a very important event that is coming up for the Say Lifeline Foundation. It's the Vision Cast 2024. As we gear up for an impactful 2024, we invite you to be a part of our mission to support individuals on their journey to recovery from sexual betrayal and unwanted sexual behavior. Now, in order to attend this on February 6th, 2024, between 7 and 8 PM Mountain Standard Time, you do need to register, and you can register at salifeline.org.

There is a link there to register for this Visioncast. A link will be sent to you to join in the Zoom event where you can, one, learn what SA Lifeline has going forward in 2024, and 2, if you are able and willing to become a valued monthly or annual donor, or bid on some really meaningful products that members of SAL have donated that are important to them in their own recovery. So come and join in on this VisionCast 2024 online fundraiser.

All right, so I'm joined here today by Josh Walpole. He is, uh, a friend of mine in recovery. We work together on— in, in SAL, but he's also somebody that is uniquely qualified to talk today on our topic of the day, which is qualified therapy. But before we get into that topic, Josh, why don't you take just a minute and introduce yourself and give a brief background about what brought you into the rooms of recovery?

Josh Walpole: So, like probably many other people, I had several different attempts at recovery, and some were successful for a period of time. This last one has lasted, but, but there was a lot of failure up to that point. So I have had a failed marriage in my early 20s. I was married for a little while, and we did some couples counseling. And at the time, I chose my addiction over the, the marriage because that's where I was at.

And several years later, after doing some therapy, being in a better place, I wasn't happy with kind of where I was at, and my addiction was not providing what it promised. And so I, I wanted to change my life and move on. And, and so did some therapy, got some sobriety, felt like I was in a pretty good place. I had a mutual friend introduce me and my current wife. And when she set us up, she knew I was a sex addict and said, hey, date Josh, but don't marry him because he's a sex addict.

And one of the differences was that I was super honest. I was radically honest, transparent with her. And because of that, I felt like I was in a new place and she fully trusted me and we fell in love and decided to get married. And so things went pretty well. But then we bought a house, we had a kid, stressors came on. And I just, I didn't have the tools, or I wasn't prepared enough for kind of hard things.

I was a good recovery level on the surface, but it wasn't very deep. And so I went back into my addiction. And since she already knew that I was an addict. Um, I just thought, well, maybe I can just take this to the grave, or I can just kind of clean this up on my own, and maybe she won't know about it, and, and we'll just kind of move on. I don't want to devastate her. Mhm.

And it was more about I didn't want to devastate me, but, but that was my justification. And so obviously my behavior kind of changed, my attitude, um, changed, and My wife thought, hey, something's off. And she said, hey, I heard about this place that deals with sexual addiction recovery called LifeStar. We should go check it out and see. And she's like, I know you're not acting out right now, but we should, we should go check it out just to get some help because it feels like our marriage is a little off.

And unbeknownst to her, I, I was acting out at the time. And so I went kicking and screaming because I kind of knew, oh man, this is where I'm going to be found out. But in going through that process, there were some things that were discovered about myself and things discovered about my addiction that gave me some hope that this is maybe possible, that maybe something could change, that maybe I could be different, and maybe I could even save my marriage.

And so I decided to go both feet in and really try. And maybe we'll get into this more a little bit later. But I did individual therapy, I did couples therapy, We did a full disclosure. I did group therapy. I joined a 12-step group and basically was full-time in recovery. And then it transitioned to one point where I said, I'm doing this for me no matter what, whether the marriage survives or not. This is something that I want.

And, and so being able to do the group therapy, individual therapy, and then the 12-step Yeah, kind of gave me the, the strength and the hope and the support to, to push me forward.

Justin B.: Thank you for sharing that, Josh. I got a couple of questions based on what you shared there. First, you said you had a failed marriage early on in your 20s, and that ended. And we don't need to go into details with that, but as your current wife fell in love with you and you fell in love with her and you were practicing rigorous honesty in that place, Why did you choose to be honest then in striving to live a sober life or a life abstinent from acting out?

Josh Walpole: Part of it was I just wanted to do it differently. And I had some decent recovery and some sobriety kind of at that time. And I wanted to see if maybe a real life was possible, because I just felt destined to, I don't know, just be a wanderer, never really have any real connections. And so I thought, man, here's an opportunity. Let's, let's see if something can come of this. And yeah, it felt really good, to be super honest.

It was different. It was weird. It was exciting in kind of a weird sort of way to just be fully honest and open and to be seen. I think that was probably the first time I really allowed myself to be really seen by somebody else. And she received me. Which was great. And, and so that just kind of fueled the fire until things became too much.

Justin B.: So were you doing like 12-step work or therapy at that point, or was it just, hey, I'm choosing to be honest and, and, and open in this situation?

Josh Walpole: So, so I did some prior 12-step work and individual therapy for a year or two before we met. Mm-hmm. So I wasn't doing anything at the time.

Justin B.: Okay. So you did, but you did have some treatment, some, you had addressed some of the problems and not just white-knuckled before that point. That's good background. I appreciate that. So the next thing you mentioned that you got married, the stressors came on, you didn't have the depth of tools and weren't using those tools to, to deal helpfully with those stressors that came on. As you look back, would you change anything that would have happened now looking back, or is that something that, that has brought you to where you are today?

Josh Walpole: Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. My knee-jerk reaction is that, yeah, I would, I would go tell my younger self all the, the treacheries and traumas and problems that are gonna happen. But then on the flip side, all the miracles and benefits and gratitude that's gonna come. And I, I don't think I could have experienced the depth of gratitude and joy without going to those depths. I refer to it as a slingshot effect. So further you pull the slingshot, the further down you go.

When you do finally release, you're bound to go even higher. And so, yeah, I don't, I would just say brace for impact, I guess, is what I tell my younger self. I don't want to change it. Yeah.

Justin B.: Brace for impact. I love that phrase and I love the concept, the slingshot concept. So, so let's, let's kind of go there where you went into LifeStar, you did group therapy, couples therapy, individual therapy, you did 12-step. What do you think has been one of the more meaningful parts of your recovery work of those things? What do you look back at and you say, you know what, that's the hinge pin moment?

Josh Walpole: So probably disclosure. Was a big part of it. We did the the phase one program, which is a six-week course where we do it with couples, and then we break out into a men's group and a women's group. And I was still lying and deceitful, even in my group for a period of time. And and so I think there was two moments that kind of shifted that. One is all the guys were going to go to this men's retreat in my group, and they wanted me to go as well.

And I just wasn't in a place that I wanted to go. A little bit financially, but mentally, emotionally, I just didn't really want to go. And so I told them, yeah, I'll give it some thought. I'll think about it. And as I was walking out of the room on that group, I stopped and I'm like, I'm lying. I'm not going to think about it. I'm not going. So I stopped and turned around. I said, guys, sorry, I'm not going.

Um, and nothing against you guys, I just don't want to go. And instead of them like being upset with me, they all came over and hugged me and they're like, oh, like, that's so great. Thank you for letting us know. We appreciate you being honest. And man, it was just, it was different and felt good to be accepted by other guys, even though I was kind of letting them down by not going. And it was right around that same time that I was preparing for disclosure.

And one of the parts of disclosure is we're only as sick as our secrets. Yeah. And so I had to start purging myself of my secrets.

Justin B.: Hmm. What you shared there about the acceptance you felt from that group of guys from the LifeStar group kind of sounds very familiar to what you talked about when you started dating your current wife, how you were honest with her and she accepted you for that honesty. Have you found that that's true? If I'm honest with somebody, I'll be more Accepted for who I am. What's your experience with that?

Josh Walpole: So yes, absolutely. The crazy part though is it's so hard to do. It's so hard to be vulnerable that sometimes we just aren't, or we make excuses or justifications. But the times that I am fully honest and am seen, it's usually received very, very well. And even if it's not, I can't even think of a time offhand that that hasn't happened. I at least feel good about me so I can walk away feeling good about me in that moment.

Yeah.

Justin B.: And I'll speak for myself here. You know, those moments where it's like, man, if I'm honest here, it's going to be rough. I worry that I'm going to feel bad about myself if I say, you know what, guys, I'm not going to go to this, this, this retreat with you. It's just not what I want to do right now, that I won't feel better about myself. So I fear being honest for that reason. Does that Does that make sense?

Does that resonate with you?

Josh Walpole: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think that's part of why when my addiction kind of resurfaced after being super honest with my wife, it was a hard thing to, to deal with because I'm like, I either got to say something now and, and brace for impact, or I'm just going to have to be quiet and hide and lie. And unfortunately, I chose that option. And so then it was years later that we finally came into recovery in that moment in group where I was honest, and I was practicing honesty by preparing for the disclosure that I'm like, oh yeah, I remember this.

It was really nice and felt really good. Why haven't I been doing this?

Justin B.: Thank you for sharing this. And it sounds like a lot of these principles and concepts you learned and practiced in these therapy groups, therapy sessions, individual couple and group therapy. Um, so were there any other roles that therapy played in your early recovery and in your early re-recovery that you'd like to touch on here?

Josh Walpole: Yeah, the first part of kind of therapy that I did and, and kind of some 12-step group work, it was beneficial, it was helpful. It was mostly just kind of changing my ways of thinking to kind of change my behavior. But I, I don't feel like we ever really got to the root of it or kind of what was going on for me. But I, I didn't know it at the time. Like, I felt like I was in a pretty good place, and, and then sobriety was my only measuring stick.

And so I'm like, if I'm sober, then I guess that's good enough, right? I, I didn't realize there was more to recovery, that recovery is kind of a different thing than just sobriety. And so I just was hanging my hat on, hey, I'm sober, and that's, that's good enough. That's all I can provide.

Justin B.: So let me back up just a little bit. Josh, you are now a therapist who specializes in sexual addiction and treating people who, who deal with sexual addiction, whether it's themselves or spouse or whatever. Was there a moment in your own recovery walk that made you go, huh, This is what I want to do, or this is what I'm supposed to do, become a therapist in this way. Why are you a therapist that specializes in these things?

Josh Walpole: Yeah, good question. So ultimately what happened is after the disclosure, it was brutal. My, my wife compares it to nuclear bomb. And so it took her a while to kind of decide what, what she wanted. And, and we ended up selling our house and moving and Yeah, starting over. She said, it's a house of lies. And if we're going to start over, we're moving to a new house and kind of starting a new foundation. And so in that, and right after disclosure, she said, you got to do more recovery.

And I'm like, I feel like I'm already doing a ton and spending a ton of money. And she's like, well, I think you need to go to a 12-step program. That's the one thing you're not doing right now. And I'm like, I don't know when I can fit that in. And she's like, well, you better figure it out. type of thing. So I started going to, to 12-step, and that, that was really helpful. It's different than a therapy group, but, but working the 12 steps and then having like a sponsor or contact person just kind of brought in a different element, something else that, that I really needed.

People talk about in our addiction and in our marriage, the betrayal trauma piece. It's kind of like burning the house down or destroying the house. Part of the rebuilding process is putting a bunch of scaffolding around so that we can rebuild. And so I think 12-step was just another added piece of the scaffolding that, that I really needed to kind of help. Mm-hmm. And so doing that, getting involved in that was, was really good and really beneficial for my recovery and seeing other people kind of down the road doing it.

And then ultimately, when I got to a place where I could become a sponsor. I stepped into that and, and just loved it. I really enjoyed sharing my experience, strength, and hope with others and having them kind of be in a tough situation and me trying to figure out how to best help them and incorporate that. And so working Step 12, I just fully embraced and it became a way of life. And I kind of got to thinking, man, I want to do this full-time.

Yeah. And, and so the, this men's retreat that I talked about, the one I didn't go to before, right, I went to later. And one of the things they have us do is it's a, it's a retreat for connecting with God. And one of the assignments they have us do is go to God and ask how God sees you and pray for a new name is kind of the concept. And so in that connection with God, I felt Like, he called me to be a therapist, and I'm like, still super young in my recovery.

And I'm like, no, like, I don't even know what I'm doing yet. I don't know if I can really help other people that well. And God's kind of like, well, you have to go to school, and that's going to take some time. Mm-hmm. So get on it. And so I came home and I talked to my wife about that. And she's like, yeah, that's great. And so I sat on that for probably 6 months. And then My wife started yelling a little louder.

God started yelling a little louder. My inner voice was yelling louder and I'm like, all right, fine. I got to do it. And so I, I went back to school to become a therapist.

Justin B.: Wow. That's really cool. I, I, about how many years did you, have you done schooling to get to where you are today as a therapist?

Josh Walpole: So I already had a bachelor's, so I went back for just my master's degree in counseling, about 2 and a half years. Okay. Um, and I was probably a year and a half into recovery when I started. And then yeah, 2 and a half years later, I, I was a therapist sitting there telling people, um, kind of helping them along their way, kind of being there for them.

Justin B.: You know, you mentioned going into 12-step rooms and it not being like group therapy, but kind of feeling somewhat similar to that. You know, I talked to, well, I hear this from a lot of people. That, you know, going into a 12-step room is just like free or really cheap group therapy. All I gotta do is put a few dollars in the hat or in the Venmo account or whatever a couple times a month, and, and it doesn't cost me $100 an hour to do therapy.

Tell us the truths behind that and tell us some of the, the, the, the falsehoods or the incompletions behind that type of belief system from your experience.

Josh Walpole: Yeah. So it's, it's free. And so that's— I always offer that very first session with everybody. Go to, go to 12-step. SAL 12-step has Zoom meetings, they have in-person meetings, but just go, just attempt, just try. It's, it's, it's free. Where group therapy is going to cost you some money. So at least do a 12-step group. And it's good that way financially, it's, it's good, but it's— it takes on a different role or a different feeling because we're all addicts in there together, and we're all striving for one purpose.

And there's just this feeling or this scent or this power behind that, that we're all there trying to help each other out. Where in group therapy, we have a therapist, a facilitator, kind of leading us down a discussion, maybe leading us through workbooks, and we can do some deeper dives into some stuff to, to some degree. But there's just the brotherhood in 12 steps is just, it's just a little different. And it's, for example, when I was at the SA Lifeline conference last year, I remember just standing in the back of the room and just looking at everybody here.

And I just had this overwhelming feel— feeling that these are my people. Like, this is home for me.

Justin B.: Love that. I love that. And then where's a shortcoming if I, if that's all I'm going to be doing is going to 12-step rooms for full treatment, the holistic approach to recovery?

Josh Walpole: Yeah, so, so I argue you have to have individual therapy and 12-step bare minimum if you're going to have lasting sobriety, if you're going to step into recovery, if, if it's going to be a long-term thing. You have to do those 2 things because eventually individual therapy is going to go away. I mean, you could do it for 6 months to 5 years, but eventually that'll go away. The idea of 12 steps is it, it doesn't go away. You still continue to attend meetings, still continue to work your 12-step, which is good.

And then, so I guess the— if you just did 12-step, I think it's, I think it's a good way to get some understanding. But there's things that are going to come up for you if you're doing it right. You're going to have some introspection. You're going to realize like, Oh man, have I had that trauma in my life, or has that been a problem for me? Or as other people share their stories, has that been a trigger for me?

And and so being able to go to therapy and kind of work through that or process through that or get a bigger understanding is is super key because otherwise we we don't really explore it, or or maybe we don't know how to explore it just on our own.

Justin B.: Yeah, and I'm going to share a little bit of a personal situation on that, just my own experience, strength, and hope on that. When I first revealed to my wife that I struggled with, with these sexual addiction, with pornography, masturbation, with sexual addiction. One of the things that we tried to do is go to therapy. And I had a horrible experience with that at first. So it turned me off to therapy big time. You know, it just turned me off.

Now, I didn't start my recovery for another 7 years, 8 years after that. Didn't start going to 12-step or really doing anything beyond just trying to clench my fist harder and pray harder and all the other things harder. that just didn't work. But just about 2 years ago, so that's probably about 6 years sober, I recognized that one of my deep character defects is that I manipulate people like crazy. My wife had always said, hey, you're trying to manipulate this, you're trying to control the situation here, you're trying to get people to say what you want them to say.

I'm like, well, of course, because what I want them to say is the right thing. But anyways, But I realized that it was, it was damaging not only my wife, my family, my relationships, but myself. I was like, man, what am I going to do? And so I talked to my sponsor and he'd be like, eh, I don't, I don't know how to help you. And I finally decided I needed to go to therapy, get a therapist and talk this through.

And I had a much better experience that second time around in that. But like I said, I was totally turned off by therapy the first experience that I had. And I was like, well, that's. just a bunch of hooey. It's not going to work for me. What is your advice to somebody who maybe has, has had a bad experience with therapy in the past? And what, how, how can— what would your be— what would your advice to them be to allow them to give it a second chance?

Josh Walpole: So with therapy and with 12-step, I've had some people that I suggest going to a 12-step group and they're like, yeah, that wasn't for me, I didn't like it. And I'm like, Hey, every 12-step group has kind of a different feel. So don't, don't quit, don't give up, go, go to a couple different other groups to kind of check it out and do, do some in-person ones if you can. If you're just doing Zoom, there can be a different feel with in-person if that's a possibility as well.

So don't be one and done. Recovery is too important to just give, give it one shot and walk away. And then same, same thing with therapy is, yeah, you're One of the most important things is what's called the therapeutic alliance. Like there has to be this unconditional positive regard from your therapist. There has to be a connection between you and your therapist. And usually within the first one or two sessions, you'll kind of know, like, are we, are we vibing or not type of thing?

And, and if you're not, I mean, it's, it's your therapy, you're paying for it. So you can walk away and go somewhere else. And you can have damage by, by therapists too. They can. you know, if they don't align with your core values, or, you know, if you're there because of a sex addiction and they don't believe in sex addiction, or if you're there because you feel masturbation is bad and, and they don't, then that can be problematic as well.

So part of it is doing some homework, trying to get some referrals from people that you may know. And so that's why group therapy or 12-step can be good, getting some referrals. Mm-hmm. But being able to find you know, what SA Lifeline calls the qualified therapy, because there's a lot of therapists out there, but you need someone that's qualified because pornography, sex addiction, betrayal trauma is a special kind of niche or specialty that you have to have somebody that's trained and aware of it.

It can't just be a run-of-the-mill person helping you out with this.

Justin B.: Thanks for helping with the segue. I'm going to go in. I want to read a couple of paragraphs from the SAL book, the Recovering Individuals, Healing Families book that that we use as one of our resources in SAL and in SA Lifeline. This comes from page 107 in the Recovery Puzzle chapter under the, the heading of Qualified Therapy. A couple of paragraphs here I want to read and get your, your take on, your feedback on this, and your insights, Josh.

As we work the 12 steps, we come to see our need for surrender, and we are taught a clear process for how to surrender But a qualified therapist plays a critical role in helping us to understand what we need to surrender. Many effective therapeutic strategies aim to make us more aware of the belief systems and past traumas that impede our spiritual, mental, and emotional growth. Understanding these usually hidden issues facilitates our progress as we work the 12 steps.

And I'm going to read one more paragraph. A qualified licensed therapist is best suited to treat the specific issues that pertain to recovering addicts and betrayed partners without inflicting additional trauma. While other sources may offer comfort and support— clergy, life coaches, or well-meaning friends and family members— they typically lack the critical educational background and experience that effective therapy requires. So Josh, as I read through those, what are some of the points that jumped out at you that you'd like to maybe expound on a little bit and share your own experience with?

Josh Walpole: Yeah, so One thing that I think was missed from my prior therapist before I was married, and again, like I said, he did a really good job and he was helpful, and I got some sobriety and had some success under him with kind of reshaping my thoughts and my distorted thinking. What I think was missed, though, is looking at the root of my addiction, which was mismanaged emotions. Hmm. I didn't do emotions well. In fact, I did them terrible.

I, I either ran from 'em or tried to numb out from 'em, and that's why I went to my addiction. And so, and, and part of the root of that is shame, rejection, abandonment, some of those big hard emotions. And that's kind of what caught my attention when I went to LifeStars is one of the sessions was all about shame. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, that's it. That's what I've been struggling with my whole life. Somebody finally named it.

It's shame. That's been the, the burden on my back. And so, so that was, that was huge, just that concept of shame. And, and then I don't know how to work through that. And 12-step doesn't necessarily help us work through that. It, it might bring up some shame for us as we share our story. But yeah, I needed a qualified therapist to help me work through my shame and deal with it in a, a healthy way.

'Cause, 'cause otherwise it would just bury me and I would go back to, to acting out when, when too much shame creeped in. Mm-hmm. So, so that was key. And then, yeah, that first line you read here in surrender, going to 12-step group, that's the first time I kind of heard of that concept of surrender. So that wasn't something that was really taught in my faith per se. It wasn't really something that was taught in, in therapy.

But 12-step, that's, that's a huge piece of the puzzle, is being able to surrender and practicing that. And Like you, I, I manipulated. I like to control things. I like to manage outcomes. And a lot of that is born out of trauma or fear. And so if I can manage outcomes or manipulate, that helps me to feel a little bit safer. And so surrender is starting to let go of that. And again, that's terrifying because it's like, no, this is, this is how I learned to survive.

If you're telling me to let go and that I'll be okay. Yeah. That's, that's terrifying. It's the concept that's in the AA book about the monkeys, where they put food in a jar, and they would stick their hand in there and grab it. And then they couldn't get their hand out of the jar. So you have to let go to get your hand out, or you're, you're trapped. Right. And so that whole concept of surrender was new to me because of 12-step.

And so dealing with the shame, dealing with the principle of surrender, those 2 key principles were were huge for me in the beginning like that. That lit a fire under me because that's what I need.

Justin B.: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. You know, one of the things that as I read through this jumped out at me, and I want to get your take on it a little bit here, was while other sources may offer comfort and support—clergy, life coaches, well-meaning friends—and I'm going to put sponsors in here, for example—they typically lack the critical educational background and experience that effective therapy requires. You know, when I worked with a sponsor through the steps, you know, steps four and five, which is I make a A detailed inventory of my life and try and find the root causes that led me to feel like it was okay to, to have these feelings, to take these actions, to have these fears.

And then steps 8 and 9, where I plan to make amends and I start making amends. I try to make things right with those that I have, that I've caused harm to in the, in my life. You know, a sponsor really helped me identify those things. But maybe that was more surface level. They helped me identify the actions that happened and the actions I need to take to try and make them right, but the emotions maybe get skimmed over.

Talk to us a little bit about how working in conjunction with qualified therapy in those steps may help that process, because honestly, most people who drop out, who, who say, you know, this is too much, drop out at steps 4 and 5 or 8 and 9. Um, and I think there might be something to that. So talk to us how maybe qualified therapy could help in that process.

Josh Walpole: Yeah. Um, so I had somebody, um, talk to me about this, um, recently about the, the 12 steps. So they said the first 3 steps are about connection. So reconnecting to ourself, reconnecting to, uh, God, a higher power, Part of the recovery process is redefining all of our relationships, because in our addiction, our relationship with ourself, with our spouse, with God, with money, with sex, all of that kind of becomes distorted. And so part of the recovery process is kind of reconnecting and reidentifying all of that.

And so the concept of those first 3 steps in connecting Is is huge, and I think part of that is doing the work with the sponsor, doing that in group, kind of coming up with understanding, finding out what maybe some of your resistance are. Like we talk about firing our old god and hiring a new god. That's kind of part of the the process. But I also had some wounding around that that I had to work through with a therapist.

I I couldn't have worked through some of that wounding, my god wounding. in 12-step. But 12-step helped me to see that or identify that. And then I could take that back to my therapist and say, hey, here's some of my wounding around, around this. How can we work through it? And then he was able to, to help me kind of shift that. Yeah. And then, yeah, steps 4 to 9 is about correction. So we need to, we need to right our wrongs and change things.

And that was, that was hard to do because I was in a place of blame, right? Everybody else Has done wrong to me. They need to make amends to me. I'm a victim. Exactly. Totally. That's that's where I lived, and and so working with a sponsor in kind of going through the amends process, doing my step four, doing the the moral inventory was all really difficult and hard, and a ton of resistance. And yeah, maybe I could have got it done, but but facing that resistance and then going to my therapist and saying, "This is where I'm at.

This is the step I'm working on, and I'm having a really hard time with it." He could help me again process through the trauma, kind of be that emotional support to kind of help me identify my needs and being able to kind of work through that. And then steps 10 to 12 is about direction, right? The direction we're heading. And so often we feel like, well, I've done 1 through 12, I'm golden. You know, I worked all the steps. Now I'm a sponsor and I can just kind of coast.

And in the beginning of my recovery, I just kept thinking, when am I going to go back to my life or my normal life? When is recovery not going to be a full-time job? And thankfully, along the way, I learned, yeah, I'm not going back to anything because if I do, I'm going to be in a bad spot. So I'm redefining and changing things and having a new direction. I can't just say, yeah, I'm grateful for all of this stuff and then go back to who I was.

I had to be a changed person and live that way. And so the 12-step, my sponsor, my individual therapist were huge in that, and I needed both of them.

Justin B.: Thank you for walking through that. You know, Josh, early on in this conversation, you said a phrase, and I think you said it twice, that really hit me. And I'm trying to see how this can be flipped. And I think I'm seeing it. You said brace for impact. You said, hey, if I were to go back and tell Josh this thing, I'd say brace for impact. And the immediate thought that comes to my mind then is, you know, a plane wreck, a train wreck, just, just a disaster that happens.

But as I've thought about this and as we've talked about this, that impact of, of self-destruction really, I think I can say brace for— looking at you, I can say brace for impact, the impact that you can have on the— Yeah. on the world in your circle of influence by going through this and facing up to this. What are your thoughts on that? Develop that a little bit more if you can, that brace for impact, how it's both seen as negative but it can be a very positive thing.

Josh Walpole: Yeah, so, so in therapy we talk about reframing, right? If somebody says, hey, I'm not good enough, we say, okay, how can you reframe that? Well, I'm working on, on being better, right? And so I like how you kind of did a reframe with the brace for impact, because it was, it was a scary thing. But also, yeah, it can, it can be turned around to be a positive thing to impact other people with experience, strength, and hope, and make a change and make a difference.

And, and part of that, even if I didn't go back to school, like, if you recover, you don't have to go back to school to become a therapist, to make amends or make a difference. Right. But that was just the way I wanted to go and felt that was appropriate for me. In doing that, I felt the grace of God come in to help me out and to kind of lead me on this path or this adventure.

But to some degree, in the back of my mind, I was like, well, I still need to satisfy the demands of justice to some degree. All the wrongs that I've done, I want to step into this and right all those wrongs to some degree. And I don't know where I'm at in keeping score, if I've done more I hope that's the case, that I've done more rights than wrong. But in doing that is just, you can, you can change your life.

You can be a different person. You can have a different relationship with yourself, with God, with your family, with your spouse and kids. And that's whether you stay married or not. You can have a shift. And I was not a super happy camper before. In fact, I thought— Yeah. You can feel happy maybe on your birthday and Christmas morning, but other than that, you're just supposed to be miserable because you're doing terrible things. And so to be able to identify as an addict, but also say, that's not my whole life, that's not everything that I'm about.

There's goodness in me too. And even in my acting out, there's still goodness in me. But let's work on getting rid of that acting out stuff. Yeah. and, and kind of magnify the, the goodness. And so being able to, on a micro level, change my family dynamic. So, so me and my wife have 4 kids. Our first 2 we call our trauma kids because they were, they were around during the addiction piece. Yeah. And then in, in recovery, we had 2 more kids, and they're our non-trauma kids.

And so I guess fast forward 20 years from now, we'll find out who turned out good and who turned out bad. But, but the idea is, they probably would have had a rough life had I stayed in my addiction. And so being able to just heal my family and have a change of impact with them is, is the best thing. And so I can just rest in that. And then anything else that I get is just bonus.

It's gravy. And so that's kind of where I'm at with that.

Justin B.: Oh, thank you for sharing that. I really liked the perspective you shared on that. And our oldest 2 are twins. And oftentimes we say they're the first pancake, you know, when you're making pancakes, the first ones are often burnt and burnt on the outside and raw in the middle and whatever else. But gratefully, we are still able to affect them in a more healthy way than we did in the beginning. It's never too late. Yeah, there's, there's, there's damage done, there's stuff, but life is long.

Things can be addressed and, and it's never too late. Josh, before we start wrapping up, is there anything else that you really want to hit on that maybe we didn't touch on already that you'd like to bring to the light in regards to qualified therapy?

Josh Walpole: Yeah, just a couple of things. So, so one is, um, SA Lifeline has the recovery puzzle and they have some questions to kind of look through for Finding qualified therapy, and so I would definitely look through those. Doing your homework when you go and look for a therapist, like I say, if you can get some good referrals, that's ideal. And then kind of looking at their website and their bio and kind of seeing what they're about.

I know kind of the popular credential is a CSAT, a certified sexual addiction therapist, and then they have different ones for trauma as well. And so those those are definitely important because they have a little more specialized training. I think. I think a huge foundational piece is, is that clinic or is that therapist, are they trauma-informed? Which I think is a huge key piece because there's trauma in addiction. Either there was trauma in your life and it led you to addiction, or you're traumatized because of your addiction.

And then on the spouse's side, the betrayal trauma piece. So there has to be some trauma-informed therapy there. And so I think that's a key distinction too, is finding out if they're trauma-informed, which is ultimately the first piece is creating safety and giving choice. So for example, somebody comes in to meet with me. And I typically will schedule a session with them at the end of that session, another session in The idea is to give them choice because trauma takes away our choice.

Trauma makes us feel like we're stuck. Trauma makes us feel like there's no other outcome and we're kind of just stuck in this. And so in order to introduce choice, that can help take away the trauma. And the choices may not always be great, but as long as you at least have some type of choice. And so at the end of the session, when I say, hey, I'd like to reschedule with you, but it's totally up to you.

I want you to have the choice of, you can either schedule online, you can schedule somebody else if you feel like we didn't vibe. Mm-hmm. Or, or if this feels good, then, then we can schedule you. But this is your choice. And just kind of give them the empowerment on that and just not assuming or expecting that is, is huge. And, and maybe they don't really notice it at the time, but just that, that feeling of, hey, you are, you are in charge, you're in control.

Here's some empowerment for you and your choice in, in kind of how you proceed. Yeah. And so just that trauma-informed component, I think, is super key and something that is worth looking for. The other thing I'd recommend or kind of take a look at too, is therapists, sometimes it's a rough, thankless job. Like we have people that we feel like we're doing some good work with. And then they cancel their session, and then we never see from them again.

And we're just like, are they okay? How are they doing? What's going on? And sometimes we hear back from them, but sometimes not. And then we deal with hard, difficult things each day. And so I believe it's super key that therapists have to do their own work. So if you are a therapist, you should have your own therapist, because otherwise you're harboring too much pent-up emotions. And, and one of the key things in, in kind of the trauma-informed element of therapy is to co-regulate with somebody.

And so if you go in and your therapist is dysregulated or freaking out about something, they're really upset or they're really depressed, it's going to be hard to kind of co-regulate with them. And so therapists have to kind of do their own work to get into a good place so that they can be more present and, and be able to co-regulate with their, their client.

Justin B.: Hmm. No, that's a really interesting concept and one that, that I think is, is important. I've often wondered, man, a therapist gets dumped on all day. Who do they dump on? So Thank you for sharing that. And yeah, I don't know if that would be an appropriate question to ask a therapist. If you go in, hey, are you, are you also getting therapy? Is that something that you could ask a therapist in that interview process or in that qualification process?

Josh Walpole: Yeah, I don't think that's a bad idea. Like saying, what are you currently working on? Or what kind of work have you— because if you were just here winging it, then I mean, some people are okay with that, but like we still have our own stuff too. We need to, we need to do our own work. Just because we're therapists doesn't mean we have it all figured out. We need help to process as well.

Justin B.: Right. Maybe I'm stereotyping here, but I think a lot of people who get into the field of therapy do it because there was a mess in their past that therapy really helped them clean up. And maybe I'm totally oversimplifying that. But no.

Josh Walpole: Yeah. Yeah, that's totally true. That's kind of the running joke in graduate school is we're all here because we have a life we're trying to fix, or a family we're trying to fix, or relationships we're trying to fix. And, and so yeah, there's some truth to that. And so we still need to be doing our own work. If we're going to be able to show up in the best of our ability.

Justin B.: Thank you for sharing that. So as we wrap up, the final 2 questions that I'd like to ask you, Josh, are ones that we ask at most of the ends of these Pathway to Recovery podcasts. What experience, strength, and hope do you have to offer that you would like to share with a newcomer into this world of sexual addiction? So they're a newcomer in the rooms, they're a newcomer in therapy. And what experience, strength, and hope would you give to somebody who maybe on the path for several years and maybe thinking, ah, I'm good?

Josh Walpole: Yeah. So I guess I would say brace for impact for, for both of them. One, one for the, the, the train wreck to some degree, and then one for, hey, you can turn things around and then you can go impact people in a different way. So that, that's the first thing I'd probably say. And then for the newcomer, 2 key tools. In in helping you in your recovery is awareness and intention, and and that's why I think coupling individual therapy with a twelve-step group is so key because it helps to bring your awareness up because we're so stuck in our head or so isolated we have no concept of who we are to some degree or kind of what our problems are that I am a manipulator or control or even a liar type of thing.

And, and so part of it is we have to have some awareness. And so as we make the, the unconscious conscious and we're aware of it, then the next step is we have to be intentional about what am I gonna do? Because there's sometimes we're made aware of our faults and we're like, yeah, I'm not going there. That's too much. That's too hard. That's too scary. I don't know how to do it. And so we run away from it.

And, and so being intentional with, hey, I can continue to show up to group. I can talk to my sponsor. I can go to individual therapy. I can, I can have some help in kind of diving into this and kind of exploring a little bit. So, so keeping that awareness and intention are 2 key tools in kind of moving forward. And I would offer the same advice to, to the long-term recovering addict too, is keep that awareness and intention going.

It'll shift, it'll change. You'll have more awareness and more intention as you continue in your, your process in your recovery. But yeah, keep it going. Don't, don't just sit back and, and relax and say, yeah, I've worked my 12 steps, or I've gotten to a certain spot, this is the most recovery or sobriety I've had, and, and kind of just sit back and coast. We can't coast uphill, and ultimately life and recovery, it's an uphill battle. So we have to keep pedaling, but it doesn't mean it's impossibly hard or terrible.

I mean, Hopefully we were in enough shape by doing our recovery that we can pedal uphill and be okay and be confident and strong enough in that.

Justin B.: Yeah. Thank you so much, Josh. I really appreciate you sharing your experience, your strength, your hope, your wisdom, your knowledge, and what you've got going here. Thanks for taking time out to converse with us. If there's anybody out there that would like to get in contact with you, how can they find you?

Josh Walpole: Yeah. So, LifeStar Network is where I work. We recently had a name change last year. It's called Circles of Grace and it's in Murray, Utah. So, if you go to circlesofgrace.health, you can take a look at our clinic and see kind of the workshops and opportunities and the bios of the therapists and everybody that work there.

Justin B.: circlesofgrace.health. Okay, perfect. We'll make sure that's in the shownotes here. Josh, as we wrap up here, I want to take us out on a similar Phrase that we often use at the end of SAL 12-step meetings. But before I do that, I just want to say everybody brace for impact. Brace for impact. Impact is it's it's a good thing either way. It may hurt. Pain is not fun. But what comes after it is at least for me I can say is well worth it.

Everybody keep coming back. It works when I work it. So work it. You are worth it.

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